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	Comments on: City Lawyers Lose Once More	</title>
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	<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/08/14/city-lawyers-lose-once-more/</link>
	<description>A different slant on the news.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 10:38:35 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Ryan		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/08/14/city-lawyers-lose-once-more/#comment-2372</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ryan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 10:38:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=401#comment-2372</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sisyphus:

You&#039;re wrong about everything except for the fact that there&#039;s no direct appeal to the Ninth Circuit.  The Justices did not engage in activism by striking down the three previous cases.  Those decisions were pure judicial activism, and the current court has restored the balance by overturning them.  Gumprecht and Weldon were activist for the following reasons:  There is no law that allows for a city or county to make determinations as to the validity of any proposed initiative; there is no law that allows the court to remove a qualified initiative from the ballot, even an invalid or &quot;administrative&quot; one; and the issue of whether a ministerial officer could frustrate the initiative process by refusing to perform his duties on the grounds that the proposed initiative was outside the &quot;scope&quot; of the process was settled in 1935 in the case of Girard v. Miller.

I could go on and on.  The fact is that this recent decision by the Court is one of the most courageous, bold, and powerful initiative rulings in this state since Associated Taxpayers v. cenarrusa in 1986.

The Justices have restored power to the people at the local level, which is a heroic thing for any politician to do.  They have bucked the trend set by other courts.  Few people will understand the significance of this.
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sisyphus:</p>
<p>You&#8217;re wrong about everything except for the fact that there&#8217;s no direct appeal to the Ninth Circuit.  The Justices did not engage in activism by striking down the three previous cases.  Those decisions were pure judicial activism, and the current court has restored the balance by overturning them.  Gumprecht and Weldon were activist for the following reasons:  There is no law that allows for a city or county to make determinations as to the validity of any proposed initiative; there is no law that allows the court to remove a qualified initiative from the ballot, even an invalid or &#8220;administrative&#8221; one; and the issue of whether a ministerial officer could frustrate the initiative process by refusing to perform his duties on the grounds that the proposed initiative was outside the &#8220;scope&#8221; of the process was settled in 1935 in the case of Girard v. Miller.</p>
<p>I could go on and on.  The fact is that this recent decision by the Court is one of the most courageous, bold, and powerful initiative rulings in this state since Associated Taxpayers v. cenarrusa in 1986.</p>
<p>The Justices have restored power to the people at the local level, which is a heroic thing for any politician to do.  They have bucked the trend set by other courts.  Few people will understand the significance of this.</p>
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		<title>
		By: NuclearShadows		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/08/14/city-lawyers-lose-once-more/#comment-2371</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NuclearShadows]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 09:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=401#comment-2371</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If the monument is allowed then maybe the pagan community can erect a permanent ritual circle in J.D. Park. Think the Christians will go for that?

And how about letting a Wiccan Priestess do the opening invocation at the Boise City council meeting once in a while? Fair is fair….

EDITOR NOTE-- Councilor Shealy keeps his eyes open and scans the room during prayer.  It bugs at least one other member that he does so.  Only those who peek--or watch reruns on TV are aware.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the monument is allowed then maybe the pagan community can erect a permanent ritual circle in J.D. Park. Think the Christians will go for that?</p>
<p>And how about letting a Wiccan Priestess do the opening invocation at the Boise City council meeting once in a while? Fair is fair….</p>
<p>EDITOR NOTE&#8211; Councilor Shealy keeps his eyes open and scans the room during prayer.  It bugs at least one other member that he does so.  Only those who peek&#8211;or watch reruns on TV are aware.</p>
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		<title>
		By: John Public		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/08/14/city-lawyers-lose-once-more/#comment-2370</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Public]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2006 20:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=401#comment-2370</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Is this decision an example of the activist judges that Bryan Fischer and Keep the Commandments Coalition have been warning us about?
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is this decision an example of the activist judges that Bryan Fischer and Keep the Commandments Coalition have been warning us about?</p>
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		<title>
		By: bikeboy		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/08/14/city-lawyers-lose-once-more/#comment-2369</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bikeboy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2006 02:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=401#comment-2369</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[For the sake of historical accuracy, I believe the monument was NOT placed by anybody involved with DeMille&#039;s movie.  It was gifted to the city (and identical monuments to hundreds of other cities) by the Eagles&#039; Club in the early 60s, albeit during the height of &quot;Ten Commandments Fever.&quot;

I was perfectly happy with the monument right where it was.  (If it had been a Star of David, or an Islamic crescent moon, or a flaming goat-skull... that would have been fine, too.  I believe I could have used my God-given brain to conclude, &quot;This monument doesn&#039;t represent everyone&#039;s beliefs, but it&#039;s been here for a long time, and some of my fellow citizens enjoy it, and I can tolerate it.  Peace, brother.&quot;)

If it had come up for a vote BEFORE Team Dave&#039; jack-booted thugs moved it, I would have voted to leave it in its place.  (Unlike some, I don&#039;t believe the founding fathers&#039; intent with the First Amendment was to stifle any public affirmation of religious belief, but rather to prohibit a &quot;state religion,&quot; as was prevalent in so many European countries at the time.)

Now that the monument has been relocated (a shame)... I&#039;m fine with that, too.  And assuming I&#039;m allowed to vote, I&#039;ll almost certainly vote to leave it where it is.  (As a believer, I believe contention is NOT of God, and He&#039;d just as soon we leave the hatchet buried now.  Likely Brandi sees things differently.)

I&#039;m curious to see if the divisive &quot;monument election&quot; will be held on designated Election Day in November (why not?), or if the city will hold a special election, at a cost of $40,000 or so, a week earlier or later.  (Or maybe follow in the footsteps of the Eagle fire-department people, and hold a &quot;secret election&quot; on Election Day, publicized by word-of-mouth at hush-hush Coalition socials.)
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the sake of historical accuracy, I believe the monument was NOT placed by anybody involved with DeMille&#8217;s movie.  It was gifted to the city (and identical monuments to hundreds of other cities) by the Eagles&#8217; Club in the early 60s, albeit during the height of &#8220;Ten Commandments Fever.&#8221;</p>
<p>I was perfectly happy with the monument right where it was.  (If it had been a Star of David, or an Islamic crescent moon, or a flaming goat-skull&#8230; that would have been fine, too.  I believe I could have used my God-given brain to conclude, &#8220;This monument doesn&#8217;t represent everyone&#8217;s beliefs, but it&#8217;s been here for a long time, and some of my fellow citizens enjoy it, and I can tolerate it.  Peace, brother.&#8221;)</p>
<p>If it had come up for a vote BEFORE Team Dave&#8217; jack-booted thugs moved it, I would have voted to leave it in its place.  (Unlike some, I don&#8217;t believe the founding fathers&#8217; intent with the First Amendment was to stifle any public affirmation of religious belief, but rather to prohibit a &#8220;state religion,&#8221; as was prevalent in so many European countries at the time.)</p>
<p>Now that the monument has been relocated (a shame)&#8230; I&#8217;m fine with that, too.  And assuming I&#8217;m allowed to vote, I&#8217;ll almost certainly vote to leave it where it is.  (As a believer, I believe contention is NOT of God, and He&#8217;d just as soon we leave the hatchet buried now.  Likely Brandi sees things differently.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m curious to see if the divisive &#8220;monument election&#8221; will be held on designated Election Day in November (why not?), or if the city will hold a special election, at a cost of $40,000 or so, a week earlier or later.  (Or maybe follow in the footsteps of the Eagle fire-department people, and hold a &#8220;secret election&#8221; on Election Day, publicized by word-of-mouth at hush-hush Coalition socials.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kate		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/08/14/city-lawyers-lose-once-more/#comment-2368</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Aug 2006 22:51:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=401#comment-2368</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yes of interest-- There have been several controversies since Mayor Bieter took office! Probably half of them involve him trying to go around the voters. Now we know why the city employs , I heard about,  40+ lawyers..Is this true??
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes of interest&#8211; There have been several controversies since Mayor Bieter took office! Probably half of them involve him trying to go around the voters. Now we know why the city employs , I heard about,  40+ lawyers..Is this true??</p>
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		<title>
		By: HH		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/08/14/city-lawyers-lose-once-more/#comment-2367</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2006 22:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=401#comment-2367</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[sanityatstake - what do you have against Kansas?
That being said - Yes, we all know  the idol we are dealing with is a Hollywood one, but those of us who know that are not the ones who have taken the issue to court. We are just the ones reading this blog and having a poke at it.
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sanityatstake &#8211; what do you have against Kansas?<br />
That being said &#8211; Yes, we all know  the idol we are dealing with is a Hollywood one, but those of us who know that are not the ones who have taken the issue to court. We are just the ones reading this blog and having a poke at it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sisyphus		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/08/14/city-lawyers-lose-once-more/#comment-2366</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sisyphus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:34:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=401#comment-2366</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yeah Guardian, when are you going to become one so the voters can pester you all day.  If I had the confidence that someone as well informed as you was to make up the electorate on the issue I&#039;d feel better about the initiative process.  But the law used to state that where the Council has weighed in on the issue, the voters&#039; beef is with the Council.  Now good and bad Christian voters will be guilted into voting in a bad law by a well funded, motivated and vocal minority.

EDITOR NOTE--Have faith!
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah Guardian, when are you going to become one so the voters can pester you all day.  If I had the confidence that someone as well informed as you was to make up the electorate on the issue I&#8217;d feel better about the initiative process.  But the law used to state that where the Council has weighed in on the issue, the voters&#8217; beef is with the Council.  Now good and bad Christian voters will be guilted into voting in a bad law by a well funded, motivated and vocal minority.</p>
<p>EDITOR NOTE&#8211;Have faith!</p>
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		<title>
		By: sanityatstake		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/08/14/city-lawyers-lose-once-more/#comment-2365</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sanityatstake]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2006 18:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=401#comment-2365</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The 10 Commandments monument was never placed in the park as a monument to God. Instead it was placed there as a publicity move by the producers of the 10 Commandments movie.  They put the same thing in many cities across the country.  So, ironically it stands as a monument to Hollywood.  By the way, can we export Brandi Swindell to Kansas?
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 10 Commandments monument was never placed in the park as a monument to God. Instead it was placed there as a publicity move by the producers of the 10 Commandments movie.  They put the same thing in many cities across the country.  So, ironically it stands as a monument to Hollywood.  By the way, can we export Brandi Swindell to Kansas?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sisyphus		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/08/14/city-lawyers-lose-once-more/#comment-2364</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sisyphus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2006 18:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=401#comment-2364</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yeah Guardian but they&#039;re wrong.  As Justice Trout points out:  &quot;That issue is ripe because there is a controversy today as to whether the proposed act is legislative or administrative and there is a present need for adjudication to make that determination before the City is required to fund an expensive election.&quot;  The question of whether the proposed initiative is administrative or legislative should not await the outcome of the election.  That&#039;s ridiculous.  What more information will be available to the Court after the election to enable them to more fully evaluate that question?  The sole basis for the majority opinion is that the measure may be defeated rendering its determination on the issue moot.

When ten thousand people do a stupid thing, it is still, in the end, a stupid thing.  This ruling undermines the concept of representative democracy, having trained professionals elected by the citizens and who are paid to become informed thoroughly on issues and render decisions accordingly. There is a democratic check ensconced in the system, voting the councilmembers out for bad judgment.  I&#039;d rather take my chances on the pros than toss it to a shrinking electorate who are motivated to vote only on that single issue or whose desision is based solely on a thirty second sound bite.  I disagree with the Court and find little justifiable reason to encumber the process by adding this tool in order to satisfy the political ambitions of a few narrow minded &quot;malcontents&quot;.

Your turn.

EDITOR NOTE--Sis, it boils down to our differing opinion of &quot;trained professionals&quot; elected to office.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah Guardian but they&#8217;re wrong.  As Justice Trout points out:  &#8220;That issue is ripe because there is a controversy today as to whether the proposed act is legislative or administrative and there is a present need for adjudication to make that determination before the City is required to fund an expensive election.&#8221;  The question of whether the proposed initiative is administrative or legislative should not await the outcome of the election.  That&#8217;s ridiculous.  What more information will be available to the Court after the election to enable them to more fully evaluate that question?  The sole basis for the majority opinion is that the measure may be defeated rendering its determination on the issue moot.</p>
<p>When ten thousand people do a stupid thing, it is still, in the end, a stupid thing.  This ruling undermines the concept of representative democracy, having trained professionals elected by the citizens and who are paid to become informed thoroughly on issues and render decisions accordingly. There is a democratic check ensconced in the system, voting the councilmembers out for bad judgment.  I&#8217;d rather take my chances on the pros than toss it to a shrinking electorate who are motivated to vote only on that single issue or whose desision is based solely on a thirty second sound bite.  I disagree with the Court and find little justifiable reason to encumber the process by adding this tool in order to satisfy the political ambitions of a few narrow minded &#8220;malcontents&#8221;.</p>
<p>Your turn.</p>
<p>EDITOR NOTE&#8211;Sis, it boils down to our differing opinion of &#8220;trained professionals&#8221; elected to office.</p>
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		<title>
		By: BoiseCitizen		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/08/14/city-lawyers-lose-once-more/#comment-2363</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BoiseCitizen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=401#comment-2363</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The vote can still happen. The &quot;Idol Worshipers&quot; can thump their bibles, but in the end it will still end up in court. Our sons and daughters are dying everyday in Iraq and these people can only think about a piece of rock and hope for the &quot;end times&quot;? The world has truly gone mad.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The vote can still happen. The &#8220;Idol Worshipers&#8221; can thump their bibles, but in the end it will still end up in court. Our sons and daughters are dying everyday in Iraq and these people can only think about a piece of rock and hope for the &#8220;end times&#8221;? The world has truly gone mad.</p>
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