Having said that, it is true that Hitler never received a majority of the votes for Chancellor of Germany. But that position was not filled by popular vote. Rather under that parlimentarian system of government the Chancellor was appointed by the President to form a government. However, the Nazi party was one of the largest parties after the 1932 elections and as the leader of that party Hitler has earned the right to be considered for Chancellor under that democratic system of government. Moreover he was able to secure a two thirds vote in Reichstag giving him extreme power under that system of government. Thus while Hitler’s tactics were highly questionable the power he secured for himself was done so within the framework of the Weimar Republic which nobody argues was undemocratic.

And yes the citizens of Japan and Germany that remained in allied control after WWII had parameters on the style of government and were strongly influenced by the occupiers on the form of government. Yet the success of these governments is due more to these countries’ vibrant economies fueled by American aid and troops maintaining security rather than the our guns being pointed at their heads which is the analogy you were employing. There are definite lessons to be learned from this history. I don’t see our current government incorporating those lessons into its foreign policy and almost three thousand American troops have paid the ultimate price for the folly.

“leg work”, “knows his history”, are you serious? My gawd, the only thing weaker than your arguments is your history! MacArthur wrote the draft of the first post-war Japanese consitution, until then Japan was not much more than a monarchy. As for Germany, the Weimar Republic essentially ended once the Nazis came into power. And no, Hitler was never elected, that is a fairy tale told by those who don’t read history but only repeat what they’ve heard others say. Hitler was appointed “Chancellor” by President Hindenburg in 1933, he was never elected. A new German political reality did not really emerge until 1949 and they were not anything close to a sovereign state until 1954, almost nine years after the end of the war. Nine years! Oh sure, the Marshall Plan influenced things, but the political reality in both countries at the end of WW-II was handed to them under threat from our guns. For crying out loud, do some reading once in a while. Just because something is on TV does not make it true.

EDITOR NOTE–We posted this for the historical perspective only. The debate thread has been closed due to acrimony beyond civil discourse which we were unable to post.

But our foriegn policy supports horribly unaccountable governments like the military dictatorship of the nuclear power Pakistan which is directly responsible for the proliferation of nuclear technology to North Korea and Iran, the monarchies in Saudi Arabia and Jordan, and the two biggest recipients of US foreign aid, the corrupt Egypt and the theocracy of Israel. Yes Israel because while Israel certainly has democratic institutions accountable to its citizens, full citizenship requires you to be Jewish and speak Hebrew, leaving the millions of Palestinians living under Israeli law disenfranchised. And yet when Hamas is democratically elected we refuse to recognize it. The White House directive that we shall only support democratic governments is inherently hypocritical and just more Orwellian fodder for the nightly news. Change will certainly come to these countries, but will our current policies make it a change favorable to the US?

In this case it’s the color of racism and religious intolerance. Bravo “American Defender” for proving why there are so many commentors opposing your ideas.

Now, if only your (towel-head hating, Muslim bashing) ideas were isolated to the radical fringe and not driving so much of current American foreign policy.

And for the record, the post-WWII Marshall Plan was successful because it fostered the cooperation of moderates in Japan through a massive influx of financial aide and the immediate cessation of military hostilities. Japan was (and still is) culturally, racially, and religiously monolithic – very much unlike today’s Iraq. The splitting of Germany, the erection of the Iron Curtain, the launching of the Cold War, and keeping the world teetering on the precipice of nuclear distruction for nearly 50 years can hardly be considered a successful introduction to German democracy. Also ( by the way), Hitler was democractically elected Germany’s Chancellor in 1933.

How appropriate that Santayana’s ‘Reason in Common Sense’ is misquoted (“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”), and used to try and justify actions that blatantly ignore historical fact.

It’s guys like you who continue to bury their heads in the sand. You don’t want to see the obvious because it is too scary.

One who ignores history is bound to repeat it. Hitler is back and he wears a rag on his head.

Huh? And you all think that is true? I think your history is a bit lacking. We, the US, imposed democracy on both Germany and Japan following WW-II. And look at those countries today, are they not doing quite well?

The trouble with invading Iraq is that it is a Muslim country with a large Arab population (and the US supports Israel). This mess is considerably more complex than what is presented here. We never should have been so arrogant to assume that we could impose democracy on a people who are not the least bit interested in hearing it from us, the “never say no” supporters of Israel.

It strikes me that religious extremists are the problem regardless of what religion they profess. Anyone who can look at their religion and find a justification for war, violence and killing is an extremist in my book. The history lesson you should draw from are the centuries of wars predicated upon killing the non believers. And in case you’re thinking of adopting a holier than thou attitude Western Civilization has perpetrated more than its share of atrocities in the name of God. See Crusades and Reformation.

But the logic you employ is mind boggling. They want us dead because we are not Muslim? Well last I checked there’s a billion Chinese that don’t seem to have this problem, they’re not Muslim and they live right next door. Somehow I think its a little more complicated than that and I strongly urge you to shift your considerable brain pan on that subject. And it may be that the Islamic religious extremists may justify the use of violence through their religion but I am at a loss how you can adopt such a myopic, misguided and ill informed point of view as to think that all of Islam gets condemned because of a couple a kooks in Afghanistan learned how to steer a plane. I mean using pejorative terms like Islamo fascists is so self contradictory and misleading that even the White House doesn’t use it any more.

Peacemakers? You belong to a nation that invaded a foriegn land without provocation, based upon questionable evidence of a well trumpeted imminent threat, killed tens of thousands including innnocent civilians and you refer to yourself as a peacemaker? I really don’t see how anyone in the Middle East right now thinks we are peacemakers, let alone the rest of the world. How Orwellian of you.

The Arab Israeli conflict has been violent on both sides. But lest you continue to suffer under the misapprehension that Israel is all sweetness and light you should google up the atrocities committed at Deir Yassin and Qana and read up on the role of the Irgun in the creation of the Israeli state. But for the life of me I don’t see where the US has a dog in that fight.

The Islamo-fascists are gunning for us. They want us dead because we are not Muslims. Their fanatical religion teaches death to the infidels.

It is the irony of ironies that the peacemakers will have to defend themselves through war or be annihilated. The Israelis are all too aware of this.

Advice…get ready to defend yourself and your loved ones or you and yours will eventually be killed and probably subject to terrorism.

Never forget this country was founded upon dissent. It was a bunch of intelligent well educated rabble rousers that decided that the American people had enough blind obedience to tyrannical policies and signed a document telling the British government to take a hike, which was quite accurately called the Declaration of Independence. They also had enough intelligence to recognize that all government can be potentially oppressive which is why the founding fathers established certain freedoms every citizen can enjoy without fear from its own or any other government. We call those the Bill of Rights. Yet every time I open a newspaper these days I see Republicans arguing how this war requires us to give up some of those rights and that the President needs more power to invade those rights. Frankly I think that’s unAmerican and unpatriotic and certainly does not “honor liberty” as you put it.

I appreciate the McCain family legacy in service to this country’s military and I also support Senator McCain’s stand on the torture bill who above all others knows what it means for our troops. But forsaking the free will God gave you for blind obedience for a corrupt cause is what will certainly doom this country. A great man once said: “If tyranny and oppression come to this land it will come in the guise of fighting a foriegn enemy”. His name was James Madison fourth president and author of the Constitution.

And please be careful. You may impugn my character but insinuating that my momma didn’t teach me pride in my country might be going a bit over the line. We should both recognize that we love our country, we just have different ways of showing it. I for one do not subsribe to the notion that I must lose my country in order to save it.