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	Comments on: When Is A Cop Not A Cop?	</title>
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	<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/10/25/when-is-a-cop-not-a-cop/</link>
	<description>A different slant on the news.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 23:39:01 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Boise Man		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/10/25/when-is-a-cop-not-a-cop/#comment-3185</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Boise Man]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 23:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=484#comment-3185</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have to admit, I find it REALLY frustrating that anyone would point to the new CSS&#039;s, community service specialists, as a waste of funds. They are civilians, and frankly, they make less than HALF what the starting officers make. Granted they may not all have the same experience as sworn officers, but they do free up sworn officers to do the more dangerous calls. They go into the field WITHOUT the protection of a firearm, and without the protection of the special status officers receive and they do it for a great deal less. This comes at their expense, and saves the taxpayers money. This is a trend across the nation, hiring civilians to do tasks that don&#039;t necessarily require a sworn officer. I imagine that sworn officers did a lot to try and stop it. The Boise Police are after all a union.

I have to agree, the average officer makes a pretty penny. To hear them complain that they cant make a living is pretty sad. Police officers are in a unique and protected class in our society. They certainly do a difficult and thankless job but at least in Boise, they are among the highest paid civil servants in the state.

For the fella who equates this to firemen? When is the last time you saw a fireman deprive someone of their freedom? According to the law or not, we give officers the right to violate some of the basic tenants of our society in the course of their duties. To make that comparison is an apples and oranges statement. We grant them powers that go way beyond the powers of a normal citizens.

If you really believe that every citizen holds the same police powers, try making a citizens arrest some time. Try making a traffic stop. Try writing that ticket WITHOUT the officer there to deliver it for you and cuff the guy, see what you get.

I have the utmost respect for them and their profession but I think there are serious ethical questions that go along with &quot;Rent-A-Cop&quot; programs. I find it interesting that in Iraq people take great offense to Mercenaries, and look down on them, but if a cop does the same thing, its cool. We entrust both soldiers and police with lethal force, just food for thought.


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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to admit, I find it REALLY frustrating that anyone would point to the new CSS&#8217;s, community service specialists, as a waste of funds. They are civilians, and frankly, they make less than HALF what the starting officers make. Granted they may not all have the same experience as sworn officers, but they do free up sworn officers to do the more dangerous calls. They go into the field WITHOUT the protection of a firearm, and without the protection of the special status officers receive and they do it for a great deal less. This comes at their expense, and saves the taxpayers money. This is a trend across the nation, hiring civilians to do tasks that don&#8217;t necessarily require a sworn officer. I imagine that sworn officers did a lot to try and stop it. The Boise Police are after all a union.</p>
<p>I have to agree, the average officer makes a pretty penny. To hear them complain that they cant make a living is pretty sad. Police officers are in a unique and protected class in our society. They certainly do a difficult and thankless job but at least in Boise, they are among the highest paid civil servants in the state.</p>
<p>For the fella who equates this to firemen? When is the last time you saw a fireman deprive someone of their freedom? According to the law or not, we give officers the right to violate some of the basic tenants of our society in the course of their duties. To make that comparison is an apples and oranges statement. We grant them powers that go way beyond the powers of a normal citizens.</p>
<p>If you really believe that every citizen holds the same police powers, try making a citizens arrest some time. Try making a traffic stop. Try writing that ticket WITHOUT the officer there to deliver it for you and cuff the guy, see what you get.</p>
<p>I have the utmost respect for them and their profession but I think there are serious ethical questions that go along with &#8220;Rent-A-Cop&#8221; programs. I find it interesting that in Iraq people take great offense to Mercenaries, and look down on them, but if a cop does the same thing, its cool. We entrust both soldiers and police with lethal force, just food for thought.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/10/25/when-is-a-cop-not-a-cop/#comment-3184</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Nov 2006 03:24:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=484#comment-3184</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Boise Cops UNDERPAID???

Below is a posting shown on the BPD web site.

From the page &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cityofboise.org/Departments/Police/NewsReleases/2006/page10965.aspx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.cityofboise.org/Departments/Police/NewsReleases/2006/page10965.aspx&lt;/a&gt;

# Sworn personnel with less than 3 years of previous full time law enforcement experience will start at the Probationary Officer pay grade  - $2,795 to $3,085.
# Sworn personnel having 3 years, but less than 5 years of previous full time law enforcement experience will start at the Police Officer I pay grade – $3,326 to $3,606.
# Sworn personnel with 5 years or more of previous full time sworn law enforcement experience will start at the Police Officer II pay grade - $3,459 to $3,739.

So if you work for BPD and have been a cop for at least three years but less than five, you&#039;ll make a hair under $40K (and that&#039;s with no overtime).

When someone making $40K a year for three years experience is UNDERPAID, they don&#039;t need another job, they need to budget their money.


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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boise Cops UNDERPAID???</p>
<p>Below is a posting shown on the BPD web site.</p>
<p>From the page <a href="http://www.cityofboise.org/Departments/Police/NewsReleases/2006/page10965.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.cityofboise.org/Departments/Police/NewsReleases/2006/page10965.aspx</a></p>
<p># Sworn personnel with less than 3 years of previous full time law enforcement experience will start at the Probationary Officer pay grade  &#8211; $2,795 to $3,085.<br />
# Sworn personnel having 3 years, but less than 5 years of previous full time law enforcement experience will start at the Police Officer I pay grade – $3,326 to $3,606.<br />
# Sworn personnel with 5 years or more of previous full time sworn law enforcement experience will start at the Police Officer II pay grade &#8211; $3,459 to $3,739.</p>
<p>So if you work for BPD and have been a cop for at least three years but less than five, you&#8217;ll make a hair under $40K (and that&#8217;s with no overtime).</p>
<p>When someone making $40K a year for three years experience is UNDERPAID, they don&#8217;t need another job, they need to budget their money.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jack		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/10/25/when-is-a-cop-not-a-cop/#comment-3183</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 15:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=484#comment-3183</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Leave the cops alone and they will leave you alone.  Do something wrong and any good cop seeing it will immediately go on duty.  As if they are ever off duty.  If I want and can afford protection I will hire a cop.  Since I can&#039;t afford protection, that is why I have a permit to carry.
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leave the cops alone and they will leave you alone.  Do something wrong and any good cop seeing it will immediately go on duty.  As if they are ever off duty.  If I want and can afford protection I will hire a cop.  Since I can&#8217;t afford protection, that is why I have a permit to carry.</p>
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		<title>
		By: john		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/10/25/when-is-a-cop-not-a-cop/#comment-3182</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[john]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=484#comment-3182</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Junkyard... sorry I offend you. I too belive cops are under paid. I defend their right to moonlight. Did I ever say I had problems with  ethical cops? I never had an ethical BPD cop knock me off my bicycle, beat and scare the crap out of me and steal my six pack because he didn&#039;t like the way I looked back in the 80&#039;s. Look at todays Statesman and read about the trouble Salt Lake City is having with cop ethics violations. Probably due to under paid and under educated officers and the people who support the status quo by saying stuff like &quot;stay the course&quot; and &quot;shut up&quot;.
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Junkyard&#8230; sorry I offend you. I too belive cops are under paid. I defend their right to moonlight. Did I ever say I had problems with  ethical cops? I never had an ethical BPD cop knock me off my bicycle, beat and scare the crap out of me and steal my six pack because he didn&#8217;t like the way I looked back in the 80&#8217;s. Look at todays Statesman and read about the trouble Salt Lake City is having with cop ethics violations. Probably due to under paid and under educated officers and the people who support the status quo by saying stuff like &#8220;stay the course&#8221; and &#8220;shut up&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Clancy		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/10/25/when-is-a-cop-not-a-cop/#comment-3181</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Clancy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Oct 2006 02:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=484#comment-3181</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think Curious has hit the nail on the head.  Let&#039;s make sure the cops are happy ($$$) with the real job, so there would be no need for the moonlighting.    I appreciate my time away from the job.

I think Curious George should be actually called, Curious Guardian.  He writes with a great balance on all subjects here at the Guardian.
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Curious has hit the nail on the head.  Let&#8217;s make sure the cops are happy ($$$) with the real job, so there would be no need for the moonlighting.    I appreciate my time away from the job.</p>
<p>I think Curious George should be actually called, Curious Guardian.  He writes with a great balance on all subjects here at the Guardian.</p>
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		By: curious george		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/10/25/when-is-a-cop-not-a-cop/#comment-3180</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[curious george]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Oct 2006 15:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=484#comment-3180</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Why are local police in such need to secure second jobs?

Boy, they just must LOVE working more than full-time and spending time away from their families. It certainly seems that there&#039;s no shortage of off-duty police to fill the ranks of private security firms.

I have to think that if we valued the efforts of our community police, and paid them well enough to raise their families, there wouldn&#039;t be a problem with putting a &quot;non-compete&quot; clause in their labor contracts.

If the subject of a non-compete clause has never been brought up in labor negotiations then it seems pretty clear that the municipality accepts that private-sector security employers will be picking up the slack for less-than-adequate wages. If you can&#039;t find out whether such a clause has been discussed - you could infer that the subject is taboo by seeing if there are administrative rules in place to punish an officer for using public resources while working off-the-clock.

Seems to me that since officers do feel the need to work extra jobs, and that there are (at least some) prohibitive rules regarding the use of government resources, the municipality has already tacitly agreed that moonlighting is a &quot;fact of life&quot; (i.e., &quot;we&quot; won&#039;t pay our police officers enough to live a decent life).

&quot;When is a cop not a cop?&quot; - When they&#039;re paid poor wages.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why are local police in such need to secure second jobs?</p>
<p>Boy, they just must LOVE working more than full-time and spending time away from their families. It certainly seems that there&#8217;s no shortage of off-duty police to fill the ranks of private security firms.</p>
<p>I have to think that if we valued the efforts of our community police, and paid them well enough to raise their families, there wouldn&#8217;t be a problem with putting a &#8220;non-compete&#8221; clause in their labor contracts.</p>
<p>If the subject of a non-compete clause has never been brought up in labor negotiations then it seems pretty clear that the municipality accepts that private-sector security employers will be picking up the slack for less-than-adequate wages. If you can&#8217;t find out whether such a clause has been discussed &#8211; you could infer that the subject is taboo by seeing if there are administrative rules in place to punish an officer for using public resources while working off-the-clock.</p>
<p>Seems to me that since officers do feel the need to work extra jobs, and that there are (at least some) prohibitive rules regarding the use of government resources, the municipality has already tacitly agreed that moonlighting is a &#8220;fact of life&#8221; (i.e., &#8220;we&#8221; won&#8217;t pay our police officers enough to live a decent life).</p>
<p>&#8220;When is a cop not a cop?&#8221; &#8211; When they&#8217;re paid poor wages.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chester		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/10/25/when-is-a-cop-not-a-cop/#comment-3179</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chester]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Oct 2006 13:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=484#comment-3179</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Junkyard Dog, I was just trying to be polite, I&#039;m with you on this one. Well said.
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Junkyard Dog, I was just trying to be polite, I&#8217;m with you on this one. Well said.</p>
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		<title>
		By: junkyard dog		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/10/25/when-is-a-cop-not-a-cop/#comment-3178</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[junkyard dog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Oct 2006 09:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=484#comment-3178</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Unless you are an inventor for Dow or a super spook for the CIA or something, companies don&#039;t &quot;own&quot; your knowledge and if cops want to work off duty as security guards, short order cooks, or bicycle repairman, that&#039;s not only their business but their right, just like all the rest of us have the right to seek other employment as long as we are not &quot;stealing resources&quot; from our primary employer to do so.

John obviously has a personal vendetta against the BPD. His comments about &quot;ethics violations&quot; and &quot;crooked cops&quot;   really rankles my fur because I know a lot of cops personally. These men and women are hardworking, sincere and dedicated to the neighborhoods they serve and its scandalous that they get paid so poorly that they have to moonlight at all.

John, shut up.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unless you are an inventor for Dow or a super spook for the CIA or something, companies don&#8217;t &#8220;own&#8221; your knowledge and if cops want to work off duty as security guards, short order cooks, or bicycle repairman, that&#8217;s not only their business but their right, just like all the rest of us have the right to seek other employment as long as we are not &#8220;stealing resources&#8221; from our primary employer to do so.</p>
<p>John obviously has a personal vendetta against the BPD. His comments about &#8220;ethics violations&#8221; and &#8220;crooked cops&#8221;   really rankles my fur because I know a lot of cops personally. These men and women are hardworking, sincere and dedicated to the neighborhoods they serve and its scandalous that they get paid so poorly that they have to moonlight at all.</p>
<p>John, shut up.</p>
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		<title>
		By: CYCLOPs		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/10/25/when-is-a-cop-not-a-cop/#comment-3177</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CYCLOPs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Oct 2006 00:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=484#comment-3177</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Boy! Guardian, you have certainly stirred the esoteric thinkers stew this time! Listening to all this pompous, self-serving crock about what cops do with their off time is really getting old.
The very moment some big, mean, nasty looking dude has you down on the pavement kicking the philosphical doo-doo out of you, every single one of you will be crying for a cop to show up. and you will not even contemplate whether or not he, or she, is on duty, off duty,or in between duties.
Just save your &quot;waxing philosophical diatribes&quot; for the important stuff.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boy! Guardian, you have certainly stirred the esoteric thinkers stew this time! Listening to all this pompous, self-serving crock about what cops do with their off time is really getting old.<br />
The very moment some big, mean, nasty looking dude has you down on the pavement kicking the philosphical doo-doo out of you, every single one of you will be crying for a cop to show up. and you will not even contemplate whether or not he, or she, is on duty, off duty,or in between duties.<br />
Just save your &#8220;waxing philosophical diatribes&#8221; for the important stuff.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chester		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2006/10/25/when-is-a-cop-not-a-cop/#comment-3176</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chester]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Oct 2006 00:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=484#comment-3176</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[John,
you are showing your obvious lack of understanding of basic policing. ISP is not by any stretch of the imagination a similar agency. ISP is a highway patrol agency that deals predominantly with traffic enforcement, accident investigation and broken down cars. City police deal with criminal investigations on a regular basis and probably take many more folks to jail.

This in turn likely results in more complaints, not ethics violations. Ethics violations are something else completely. So if you are going to  make these generic uninformed statements, be prepared to be made to look foolish. At least do you homework, choose another agency that is similar, maybe Nampa. Realize that ethics violations and officer complaints are two different things. And the Ombudsman was simply a knee jerk reaction of a weak mayor (Coles) and council that were too spineless to defend their police department in front of the public. Creating his office was simply a way to relieve them of any political heat.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,<br />
you are showing your obvious lack of understanding of basic policing. ISP is not by any stretch of the imagination a similar agency. ISP is a highway patrol agency that deals predominantly with traffic enforcement, accident investigation and broken down cars. City police deal with criminal investigations on a regular basis and probably take many more folks to jail.</p>
<p>This in turn likely results in more complaints, not ethics violations. Ethics violations are something else completely. So if you are going to  make these generic uninformed statements, be prepared to be made to look foolish. At least do you homework, choose another agency that is similar, maybe Nampa. Realize that ethics violations and officer complaints are two different things. And the Ombudsman was simply a knee jerk reaction of a weak mayor (Coles) and council that were too spineless to defend their police department in front of the public. Creating his office was simply a way to relieve them of any political heat.</p>
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