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	Comments on: Meridian Bond Will Fund Growth	</title>
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	<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2007/04/26/meridian-bond-will-fund-growth/</link>
	<description>A different slant on the news.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 20:26:44 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Clippityclop		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2007/04/26/meridian-bond-will-fund-growth/#comment-5009</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Clippityclop]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 20:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=622#comment-5009</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the clarification, Guardian.  I am nipping the promotion of LIDs, not impact fees, because I think they are highly risky for the reasons listed above.  If a developer doesn&#039;t have the horsepower to provide infrastructure upfront, then it&#039;s not our responsibilty to ensure his payday or back his gamble.
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the clarification, Guardian.  I am nipping the promotion of LIDs, not impact fees, because I think they are highly risky for the reasons listed above.  If a developer doesn&#8217;t have the horsepower to provide infrastructure upfront, then it&#8217;s not our responsibilty to ensure his payday or back his gamble.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jackie		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2007/04/26/meridian-bond-will-fund-growth/#comment-5008</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jackie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 18:23:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=622#comment-5008</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I hate to break it to you, but if you don&#039;t pass the bond, and IF (a big, almost impossible, IF) the state legislature provides the impact fee authority for schools, you are still in the same place you are today.

The impact fee statute is very tightly written to only allow the fees to pay for new infrastructure, it cannot pay to improve current infrastructure (ie. the bond doesn&#039;t pass, schools continue to be overcrowded, and there is no way to solve the current problem thru impact fees).  So, the new impact fee authority you desire would cover the future growth, but not what Meridian is experiencing at this minute.

I wholeheartedly agree with Stephen that changes need to be made to the impact fee statute, but trust me, it will not happen, unless there is a change in the make up of the state legislature.  Have you talked with your legislators yet?
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate to break it to you, but if you don&#8217;t pass the bond, and IF (a big, almost impossible, IF) the state legislature provides the impact fee authority for schools, you are still in the same place you are today.</p>
<p>The impact fee statute is very tightly written to only allow the fees to pay for new infrastructure, it cannot pay to improve current infrastructure (ie. the bond doesn&#8217;t pass, schools continue to be overcrowded, and there is no way to solve the current problem thru impact fees).  So, the new impact fee authority you desire would cover the future growth, but not what Meridian is experiencing at this minute.</p>
<p>I wholeheartedly agree with Stephen that changes need to be made to the impact fee statute, but trust me, it will not happen, unless there is a change in the make up of the state legislature.  Have you talked with your legislators yet?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Clancy		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2007/04/26/meridian-bond-will-fund-growth/#comment-5007</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Clancy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 16:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=622#comment-5007</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Clippity,  Many times the developers payday doesn&#039;t come until the project is completed, and impact fees don&#039;t get collected until after the final sale.

LID&#039;s can work successfully and its merits are debatable both good and bad.  The &quot;greater good&quot; should be looked at and which way will pay for growth ahead of time.  The developer could go belly up before the final sales, but what if they didn&#039;t.  Those homes would be paying for the growth related improvements(schools, roads, etc..) already in place and not costing the taxpayers a dime.  Sounds better than the current plan where taxpayers are sacked with the burden no matter what.

EDITOR NOTE--The down side of the LID as proposed by the developer is that it simply ENABLES and promotes growth.  A developer who doesn&#039;t have the money gets it in the form bonds on future construction/lots.  The impact fees have nothing to do with the developer&#039;s obligation within a sudivision.  I think you guys are talking two different things here.

IMPACT fees are just that--fees to offset the impact of a dvelopment.  LIDS as proposed by developers relieve the developer of building full sized roads, sewers, and water PRIOR to selling houses.  They want to put FUTURE liens on houses they may sell.  Risky for the rest of us.




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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clippity,  Many times the developers payday doesn&#8217;t come until the project is completed, and impact fees don&#8217;t get collected until after the final sale.</p>
<p>LID&#8217;s can work successfully and its merits are debatable both good and bad.  The &#8220;greater good&#8221; should be looked at and which way will pay for growth ahead of time.  The developer could go belly up before the final sales, but what if they didn&#8217;t.  Those homes would be paying for the growth related improvements(schools, roads, etc..) already in place and not costing the taxpayers a dime.  Sounds better than the current plan where taxpayers are sacked with the burden no matter what.</p>
<p>EDITOR NOTE&#8211;The down side of the LID as proposed by the developer is that it simply ENABLES and promotes growth.  A developer who doesn&#8217;t have the money gets it in the form bonds on future construction/lots.  The impact fees have nothing to do with the developer&#8217;s obligation within a sudivision.  I think you guys are talking two different things here.</p>
<p>IMPACT fees are just that&#8211;fees to offset the impact of a dvelopment.  LIDS as proposed by developers relieve the developer of building full sized roads, sewers, and water PRIOR to selling houses.  They want to put FUTURE liens on houses they may sell.  Risky for the rest of us.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Clippityclop		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2007/04/26/meridian-bond-will-fund-growth/#comment-5006</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Clippityclop]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 13:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=622#comment-5006</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Clancy,
As per usual, you miss the point.  Growth needs to pay for itself, which means developers need to pay lots of nickels and be realistic about the impacts of their projects.  Local improvement district bonds only shift the ultimate cost to the entire taxpayer base if the developer goes belly up or blows town.  Bad precedent and bad policy.  We don&#039;t need to be subsidizing speculation.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clancy,<br />
As per usual, you miss the point.  Growth needs to pay for itself, which means developers need to pay lots of nickels and be realistic about the impacts of their projects.  Local improvement district bonds only shift the ultimate cost to the entire taxpayer base if the developer goes belly up or blows town.  Bad precedent and bad policy.  We don&#8217;t need to be subsidizing speculation.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Clancy		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2007/04/26/meridian-bond-will-fund-growth/#comment-5005</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Clancy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 03:23:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=622#comment-5005</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I got lost on who said what, but the problem needs to be fixed higher up AKA the part-time legislature.  Impact fees are a great way to pay for new school facilities and maybe a local improvement district would work in conjunction with development requirements for the larger planned communities.  Both of these options will get developer support as it won&#039;t cost them a nickel.

]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got lost on who said what, but the problem needs to be fixed higher up AKA the part-time legislature.  Impact fees are a great way to pay for new school facilities and maybe a local improvement district would work in conjunction with development requirements for the larger planned communities.  Both of these options will get developer support as it won&#8217;t cost them a nickel.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Russ		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2007/04/26/meridian-bond-will-fund-growth/#comment-5004</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Russ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2007 11:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=622#comment-5004</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Back in the 70&#039;s in Washington State the people were tired of passing school bonda and failed them 3 times before the state said that if they didn&#039;t pass the next one that the state would decertify the schools. The next one passed.

In California they don&#039;t have school bonds. Instead some cities require that the developer build schools in some of the developmemts. They also place a room fee on new building permits for homes to help support the schools.

About a year or two ago didn&#039;t the Idaho supreme court say that the school bond elections were unconstitutional?
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back in the 70&#8217;s in Washington State the people were tired of passing school bonda and failed them 3 times before the state said that if they didn&#8217;t pass the next one that the state would decertify the schools. The next one passed.</p>
<p>In California they don&#8217;t have school bonds. Instead some cities require that the developer build schools in some of the developmemts. They also place a room fee on new building permits for homes to help support the schools.</p>
<p>About a year or two ago didn&#8217;t the Idaho supreme court say that the school bond elections were unconstitutional?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Luddite		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2007/04/26/meridian-bond-will-fund-growth/#comment-5003</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Luddite]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2007 22:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=622#comment-5003</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Snoop- It sounds like you work for the City and know what the developers pay?  I bet you wouldn&#039;t know that someone that I&#039;m close to works for the City and knows that the City administors and pays for the trunk lines.  The sewer connection fees that older homes pay go directly to the City (and means annexation).  So I guess the answer to your challenge is; Yes, I do believe (and know) the City pays for the sewer trunk lines.  Developers pay to run it through their subdivisions.  In normal growth extensions would be through LIDs and paid for.

My solulotion is in line with Mike&#039;s article, to vote down the bond and make the problems of the rampant growth come to the surface.  Do you really think the major LLC developers, Ada county and the City of Boise give a rip about our children&#039;s education?  Or are they stacking and packing the impact area as much as they can until the quality of life is in the bucket and nobody wants to live here?
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Snoop- It sounds like you work for the City and know what the developers pay?  I bet you wouldn&#8217;t know that someone that I&#8217;m close to works for the City and knows that the City administors and pays for the trunk lines.  The sewer connection fees that older homes pay go directly to the City (and means annexation).  So I guess the answer to your challenge is; Yes, I do believe (and know) the City pays for the sewer trunk lines.  Developers pay to run it through their subdivisions.  In normal growth extensions would be through LIDs and paid for.</p>
<p>My solulotion is in line with Mike&#8217;s article, to vote down the bond and make the problems of the rampant growth come to the surface.  Do you really think the major LLC developers, Ada county and the City of Boise give a rip about our children&#8217;s education?  Or are they stacking and packing the impact area as much as they can until the quality of life is in the bucket and nobody wants to live here?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Snoop		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2007/04/26/meridian-bond-will-fund-growth/#comment-5002</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Snoop]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2007 20:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=622#comment-5002</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[For once I agree with Sharon here. We need to look at management as the first real problem.
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For once I agree with Sharon here. We need to look at management as the first real problem.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sharon Ullman		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2007/04/26/meridian-bond-will-fund-growth/#comment-5001</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sharon Ullman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2007 14:15:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=622#comment-5001</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s time to start talking again about how to get more bang for our education bucks.  For example, &quot;year-round&quot; school schedules stagger the dates that each class attends school, thereby allowing 25 percent more students to use the same facility.

The charter schools in the Meridian School District have cost far less, on a per student basis, for facilities as well.

On June 30, 2005, at the end of the 2005 fiscal year, the State of Idaho had $214 million left unspent. At the end of the 2006 fiscal year, the State had $309 million. These big surpluses were largely due to growth. We all want growth to pay for itself but the money is going to the wrong level of government. It is not necessary to extract more new taxes and fees from anyone, but rather to get the Idaho Legislature to redirect the money growth is already generating back to the local government entities that provide the infrastructure to serve that growth.

Large projects that are far removed from available infrastructure, such as distant planned communities, are an exception. In these cases, requiring the developers to pay the added costs of service to provide the necessary infrastructure (roads, schools, fire, emergency medical services, etc.) should be required.


]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s time to start talking again about how to get more bang for our education bucks.  For example, &#8220;year-round&#8221; school schedules stagger the dates that each class attends school, thereby allowing 25 percent more students to use the same facility.</p>
<p>The charter schools in the Meridian School District have cost far less, on a per student basis, for facilities as well.</p>
<p>On June 30, 2005, at the end of the 2005 fiscal year, the State of Idaho had $214 million left unspent. At the end of the 2006 fiscal year, the State had $309 million. These big surpluses were largely due to growth. We all want growth to pay for itself but the money is going to the wrong level of government. It is not necessary to extract more new taxes and fees from anyone, but rather to get the Idaho Legislature to redirect the money growth is already generating back to the local government entities that provide the infrastructure to serve that growth.</p>
<p>Large projects that are far removed from available infrastructure, such as distant planned communities, are an exception. In these cases, requiring the developers to pay the added costs of service to provide the necessary infrastructure (roads, schools, fire, emergency medical services, etc.) should be required.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Stephen		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2007/04/26/meridian-bond-will-fund-growth/#comment-5000</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2007 14:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/wp/?p=622#comment-5000</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Interesting that the cities are being blamed so often for not collecting impact fees to pay for services when the real culprit for the situation in most instances is further up the ladder -- at the Legislature where such fees have been outlawed for the most part.  (There are some allowed, such as for parks, but such collections for most major infrastructure is banned by state law).

An example: I recall that about 20 years ago the City of Eagle proposed an ordinance that would collect a fee for each additional bedroom (beyond one) in a home with the intent of using it to build new or add onto the existing schools.  The thought was that homes seeking additional bedrooms were likely to have additional children to educate.

When they found that effort would be counter to a law banning one taxing entity to collect money and give it to another (like from Eagle to the Meridian School District), the city proposed building a school needed for the future and lease it back to the school district.  In that case too (collecting a fee to build a facility to lease to the school district) the Attorney General ruled that proposal was also against the law (and perhaps unconstitutional).  Interesting that The Statesman made a big deal out of the proposed effort by Eagle at the time to commit an &quot;illegal act&quot; because it would have &quot;hurt&quot; development by raising the price of houses.  Too bad the paper, and others, didn&#039;t instead scream about the need to allow such collections to take place.  If they had, perhaps the infrastructure needs wouldn&#039;t be going further and further into the crapper.

After that try, Eagle looked at a couple of other possibilities as ways to collect funds from developers, but in each case the city was told by the state they could not do so because of state law.  Impact fees won&#039;t handle everything (such as with ACHD), but things could actually be a whole lot worse if they weren&#039;t allowed on the limited basis they are today.  Maybe pressure ought to be put on the State to fix things, not necessarily on the locals.

EDITOR NOTE--Good points.  We need to find some recent examples of the Association of Idaho Cities and perhaps the Boise lobbyist pushing for reforms you mention, apart from local option taxes on the masses.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting that the cities are being blamed so often for not collecting impact fees to pay for services when the real culprit for the situation in most instances is further up the ladder &#8212; at the Legislature where such fees have been outlawed for the most part.  (There are some allowed, such as for parks, but such collections for most major infrastructure is banned by state law).</p>
<p>An example: I recall that about 20 years ago the City of Eagle proposed an ordinance that would collect a fee for each additional bedroom (beyond one) in a home with the intent of using it to build new or add onto the existing schools.  The thought was that homes seeking additional bedrooms were likely to have additional children to educate.</p>
<p>When they found that effort would be counter to a law banning one taxing entity to collect money and give it to another (like from Eagle to the Meridian School District), the city proposed building a school needed for the future and lease it back to the school district.  In that case too (collecting a fee to build a facility to lease to the school district) the Attorney General ruled that proposal was also against the law (and perhaps unconstitutional).  Interesting that The Statesman made a big deal out of the proposed effort by Eagle at the time to commit an &#8220;illegal act&#8221; because it would have &#8220;hurt&#8221; development by raising the price of houses.  Too bad the paper, and others, didn&#8217;t instead scream about the need to allow such collections to take place.  If they had, perhaps the infrastructure needs wouldn&#8217;t be going further and further into the crapper.</p>
<p>After that try, Eagle looked at a couple of other possibilities as ways to collect funds from developers, but in each case the city was told by the state they could not do so because of state law.  Impact fees won&#8217;t handle everything (such as with ACHD), but things could actually be a whole lot worse if they weren&#8217;t allowed on the limited basis they are today.  Maybe pressure ought to be put on the State to fix things, not necessarily on the locals.</p>
<p>EDITOR NOTE&#8211;Good points.  We need to find some recent examples of the Association of Idaho Cities and perhaps the Boise lobbyist pushing for reforms you mention, apart from local option taxes on the masses.</p>
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