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	Comments on: Plans For (Mark) Rivers City	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://boiseguardian.com/2008/07/22/plans-for-mark-rivers-city/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/07/22/plans-for-mark-rivers-city/</link>
	<description>A different slant on the news.</description>
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		<title>
		By: Matt		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/07/22/plans-for-mark-rivers-city/#comment-8938</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=993#comment-8938</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mr. Rivers is the modern version of a snake oil salesman - only thing is that he has the mayor and city council drinking his brew - and they are addicted to it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Rivers is the modern version of a snake oil salesman &#8211; only thing is that he has the mayor and city council drinking his brew &#8211; and they are addicted to it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Anderson		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/07/22/plans-for-mark-rivers-city/#comment-8929</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Anderson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=993#comment-8929</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Some developement I&#039;d like to see:

-978 gazillion skinny houses, with no parking, put on 15&#039; wide lots ALL AROUND Dave Bieters house.

-A Three Mile Island Memorial nuclear plant built on the Boise River across from Butch Otters house.

-Extensive oil and natural gas exploration in all of the wealthy foothills neighborhoods.

-Massive street widening projects in front of all the Ada County Highway District Commissioners homes.

-Rezoning of Brandi Swindell and Brian Fischers neighborhoods to include brothels and bars.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some developement I&#8217;d like to see:</p>
<p>-978 gazillion skinny houses, with no parking, put on 15&#8242; wide lots ALL AROUND Dave Bieters house.</p>
<p>-A Three Mile Island Memorial nuclear plant built on the Boise River across from Butch Otters house.</p>
<p>-Extensive oil and natural gas exploration in all of the wealthy foothills neighborhoods.</p>
<p>-Massive street widening projects in front of all the Ada County Highway District Commissioners homes.</p>
<p>-Rezoning of Brandi Swindell and Brian Fischers neighborhoods to include brothels and bars.</p>
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		<title>
		By: curious george		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/07/22/plans-for-mark-rivers-city/#comment-8915</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[curious george]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 04:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=993#comment-8915</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Well, in another life I had an opportunity to work with some of the Goodman Oil family&#039;s representatives about redeveloping some of their property -- not their old oil compound, but their old Tiger gas station on the NWC of Capital &#038; Morrison/University. I was left scratching my head with the implied sense of entitlement the family felt it deserved -- it was &quot;them against the world&quot;. Representing my employer, I was opposed to certain characteristics of their development (a Jack-in-the-Box drive-thru) but pleased that something was going to be done with the property. But the family refused to accept that they would be responsible for reconditioning the property&#039;s Capital Blvd frontage as a condition of the required zoning approval. Hence, the project died.

But, their shyness about redeveloping the old Oil Yard next to the river probably stems from knowledge they have about the site&#039;s soil contamination and the cost they would incur to clean up the polluted soil. The way the federal regs are written, even if they sold the site, they would still be held liable for cleaning up the contamination. And, knowingly developing (or selling) polluted land without divulging the contamination carries a $250K fine (and they still have to pay for the clean-up) -- even a professional consultant (planner, architect, engineer) who knows of the contamination and does not reveal it can be charged a $50K fine.

Some land owners in Ada County have walked away from contaminated property (mums the word), and let the land&#039;s ownership revert to the county for back taxes. The county (that is, you &#038; me) are left cleaning up the property -- hoping that the land will be worth enough upon eventual sale to recoup the clean-up costs. There was such a parcel just west of the old ITT Tech building (now BSU&#039;s Health Science Riverside bldg) next to the Boise River. Ada County took the land for back taxes and had to spend $50K to clean-up all the contaminated soil. The land was sold to a private developer, and tax payers were made whole, but at one point the county was trying to sell the cleaned-up property to either the City (for a Morrison Park parking lot -- which may have helped out a certain councilmember&#039;s daughter if it had happened) or to BSU for an expanded academic facility. If the land had sold to either of the public entities -- tell me how taxpayers would have ever been reimbursed for their expenses.

But as for River&#039;s Moyle comment, he&#039;s right on target. Moyle&#039;s libertarian attitudes have won him fans in the hinterlands, but his efforts to undermine the ability of local citizens to plan for and fund their own public future have reserved him a special place in Hell. Moyle would like you to believe he&#039;s anti-tax (any tax) &#038; anti-big government, but in reality he&#039;s anti-citizen who believes that the public is incapable of managing its own affairs and must be led by a wise enlightened leadership (his). He&#039;s the worst kind of big-government, pocket-lining politician, and the sooner he can be led to greener pastures the better. If you&#039;ve ever had the displeasure of spending any time with him in a closed room, it takes a good 24-hours to get the stench of smoke from his back room dealings out of your clothes.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, in another life I had an opportunity to work with some of the Goodman Oil family&#8217;s representatives about redeveloping some of their property &#8212; not their old oil compound, but their old Tiger gas station on the NWC of Capital &amp; Morrison/University. I was left scratching my head with the implied sense of entitlement the family felt it deserved &#8212; it was &#8220;them against the world&#8221;. Representing my employer, I was opposed to certain characteristics of their development (a Jack-in-the-Box drive-thru) but pleased that something was going to be done with the property. But the family refused to accept that they would be responsible for reconditioning the property&#8217;s Capital Blvd frontage as a condition of the required zoning approval. Hence, the project died.</p>
<p>But, their shyness about redeveloping the old Oil Yard next to the river probably stems from knowledge they have about the site&#8217;s soil contamination and the cost they would incur to clean up the polluted soil. The way the federal regs are written, even if they sold the site, they would still be held liable for cleaning up the contamination. And, knowingly developing (or selling) polluted land without divulging the contamination carries a $250K fine (and they still have to pay for the clean-up) &#8212; even a professional consultant (planner, architect, engineer) who knows of the contamination and does not reveal it can be charged a $50K fine.</p>
<p>Some land owners in Ada County have walked away from contaminated property (mums the word), and let the land&#8217;s ownership revert to the county for back taxes. The county (that is, you &amp; me) are left cleaning up the property &#8212; hoping that the land will be worth enough upon eventual sale to recoup the clean-up costs. There was such a parcel just west of the old ITT Tech building (now BSU&#8217;s Health Science Riverside bldg) next to the Boise River. Ada County took the land for back taxes and had to spend $50K to clean-up all the contaminated soil. The land was sold to a private developer, and tax payers were made whole, but at one point the county was trying to sell the cleaned-up property to either the City (for a Morrison Park parking lot &#8212; which may have helped out a certain councilmember&#8217;s daughter if it had happened) or to BSU for an expanded academic facility. If the land had sold to either of the public entities &#8212; tell me how taxpayers would have ever been reimbursed for their expenses.</p>
<p>But as for River&#8217;s Moyle comment, he&#8217;s right on target. Moyle&#8217;s libertarian attitudes have won him fans in the hinterlands, but his efforts to undermine the ability of local citizens to plan for and fund their own public future have reserved him a special place in Hell. Moyle would like you to believe he&#8217;s anti-tax (any tax) &amp; anti-big government, but in reality he&#8217;s anti-citizen who believes that the public is incapable of managing its own affairs and must be led by a wise enlightened leadership (his). He&#8217;s the worst kind of big-government, pocket-lining politician, and the sooner he can be led to greener pastures the better. If you&#8217;ve ever had the displeasure of spending any time with him in a closed room, it takes a good 24-hours to get the stench of smoke from his back room dealings out of your clothes.</p>
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		<title>
		By: James Bond		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/07/22/plans-for-mark-rivers-city/#comment-8914</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Bond]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 02:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=993#comment-8914</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not a fan of the Goodman Oil property at all.  I have ridden by it 1,000&#039;s of times on my bike.  However, it is very, very difficult for me to accept that the owner&#039;s are intentionally avoiding profitable development of it.  When profits can be made that exceed the discount rate, it doesn&#039;t require much greed for an owner to go after that profit.  There simply has to be a lot more to this--devevoping commercial property is not as easy as it might sound to some.

That said, I completely agree that the site is an eyesore, the Greenbelt should be elevated near that area because it is the first area that floods, and it sure seems like that location is a good location that should, at some point, command a lot of money from someone!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a fan of the Goodman Oil property at all.  I have ridden by it 1,000&#8217;s of times on my bike.  However, it is very, very difficult for me to accept that the owner&#8217;s are intentionally avoiding profitable development of it.  When profits can be made that exceed the discount rate, it doesn&#8217;t require much greed for an owner to go after that profit.  There simply has to be a lot more to this&#8211;devevoping commercial property is not as easy as it might sound to some.</p>
<p>That said, I completely agree that the site is an eyesore, the Greenbelt should be elevated near that area because it is the first area that floods, and it sure seems like that location is a good location that should, at some point, command a lot of money from someone!</p>
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		<title>
		By: TJ		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/07/22/plans-for-mark-rivers-city/#comment-8904</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=993#comment-8904</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[32 units of &quot;affordable&quot; housing.  That leaves 188 units of &quot;unaffordable&quot; housing.  How does that work?

Can&#039;t we please have a building moratorium? Affordable or otherwise.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>32 units of &#8220;affordable&#8221; housing.  That leaves 188 units of &#8220;unaffordable&#8221; housing.  How does that work?</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t we please have a building moratorium? Affordable or otherwise.</p>
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		<title>
		By: boisecynic		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/07/22/plans-for-mark-rivers-city/#comment-8902</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[boisecynic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=993#comment-8902</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Guardian: I posted another comment and somehow it dissappeared into the ether. Here it is again with a little more polish. Sorry if this is a double post.

Did Marcia also ask how it&#039;s fair churches don&#039;t pay any property taxes, not even one dime? How about site&#039;s like Goodman Oil? That site pays less per square foot than I do, or Marcia, or the Guardian on a lesser zoned property, that&#039;s not even on the river.

It&#039;s virtually the same thing. Vacant and severely underutilized lots do not contribute their fair share. The problem downtown faces, or any downtown for that matter, is aging and decaying properties whose owners refuse to unload for speculative or just plain ornery purposes. To wit, Goodman! I&#039;ve and others have written about his shenanigans. 

Suburban locales and raw land locales do not face this problem. Thus URIs are appropriate for downtown. I&#039;ll even go one step further and opine that the City should take control of the Goodman site via eminent domain. Kelo decision anybody?

Sure, property tax revenue is recycled wholly within the URI, but you&#039;re ignoring the following; other new taxes are generated. Sales tax, income tax (from workers), alcohol tax, gasoline tax (via travel into the URI) and probably a slew of others.

EDITOR NOTE--All true Cynic, but the CITY budget comes mostly from PROPERTY 
taxes.  The rest of us make up what is lost to help the poor developers scratch out a meager existence.  Gas tax goes to highways, and income tax goes to the state.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guardian: I posted another comment and somehow it dissappeared into the ether. Here it is again with a little more polish. Sorry if this is a double post.</p>
<p>Did Marcia also ask how it&#8217;s fair churches don&#8217;t pay any property taxes, not even one dime? How about site&#8217;s like Goodman Oil? That site pays less per square foot than I do, or Marcia, or the Guardian on a lesser zoned property, that&#8217;s not even on the river.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s virtually the same thing. Vacant and severely underutilized lots do not contribute their fair share. The problem downtown faces, or any downtown for that matter, is aging and decaying properties whose owners refuse to unload for speculative or just plain ornery purposes. To wit, Goodman! I&#8217;ve and others have written about his shenanigans. </p>
<p>Suburban locales and raw land locales do not face this problem. Thus URIs are appropriate for downtown. I&#8217;ll even go one step further and opine that the City should take control of the Goodman site via eminent domain. Kelo decision anybody?</p>
<p>Sure, property tax revenue is recycled wholly within the URI, but you&#8217;re ignoring the following; other new taxes are generated. Sales tax, income tax (from workers), alcohol tax, gasoline tax (via travel into the URI) and probably a slew of others.</p>
<p>EDITOR NOTE&#8211;All true Cynic, but the CITY budget comes mostly from PROPERTY<br />
taxes.  The rest of us make up what is lost to help the poor developers scratch out a meager existence.  Gas tax goes to highways, and income tax goes to the state.</p>
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		<title>
		By: boisecynic		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/07/22/plans-for-mark-rivers-city/#comment-8899</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[boisecynic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=993#comment-8899</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Moyle won the primary race despite Rivers’ efforts and money.&quot;

Wow, I never heard of someone with power and money trying to influence an election. This sounds like a nightmare. /end sarcasm]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Moyle won the primary race despite Rivers’ efforts and money.&#8221;</p>
<p>Wow, I never heard of someone with power and money trying to influence an election. This sounds like a nightmare. /end sarcasm</p>
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		<title>
		By: Reactions to Rivers City Club Speech - TechBoise		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/07/22/plans-for-mark-rivers-city/#comment-8898</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Reactions to Rivers City Club Speech - TechBoise]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=993#comment-8898</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] Guardian has their usual slant on anything that effects taxes: When asked how much his projects contribute to the Boise City tax [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Guardian has their usual slant on anything that effects taxes: When asked how much his projects contribute to the Boise City tax [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: James Bond		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/07/22/plans-for-mark-rivers-city/#comment-8896</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Bond]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:38:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=993#comment-8896</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I also happen to have some information that leads me to believe that the downtown convention center is all but dead.  Boise&#039;s traffic situation, the size of the property, the parking needs such a development would require, and some other factors make it highly unlikely to happen.  However, I do believe we will see a new convention center of substantial size, but just not in downtown Boise.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also happen to have some information that leads me to believe that the downtown convention center is all but dead.  Boise&#8217;s traffic situation, the size of the property, the parking needs such a development would require, and some other factors make it highly unlikely to happen.  However, I do believe we will see a new convention center of substantial size, but just not in downtown Boise.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Boise Whiskey Tango		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/07/22/plans-for-mark-rivers-city/#comment-8894</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Boise Whiskey Tango]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=993#comment-8894</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I personally don&#039;t begrudge developers trying to pull the wool over our collective eyes.

I mean, heck - They&#039;re Developers!

Whaddaya expect them to do?

Sleep with snakes, yer gonna get bit!

What I do get quite angry about, is our supposed &quot;Public Servants&quot; who grease the skids for them.

Remember...

&quot;Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote.&quot;  -Unknown]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I personally don&#8217;t begrudge developers trying to pull the wool over our collective eyes.</p>
<p>I mean, heck &#8211; They&#8217;re Developers!</p>
<p>Whaddaya expect them to do?</p>
<p>Sleep with snakes, yer gonna get bit!</p>
<p>What I do get quite angry about, is our supposed &#8220;Public Servants&#8221; who grease the skids for them.</p>
<p>Remember&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote.&#8221;  -Unknown</p>
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