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	<title>
	Comments on: Gas Is Cheaper, But What About Roads?	</title>
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	<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/10/17/gas-is-cheaper-but-what-about-roads/</link>
	<description>A different slant on the news.</description>
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		<title>
		By: Gordon		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/10/17/gas-is-cheaper-but-what-about-roads/#comment-9859</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gordon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 00:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=1394#comment-9859</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Re Roberto&#039;s suggestion for toll roads:

I think they&#039;d be a great idea for all those new roads the subdividers want for their new cover-the-foothills creations.
That way, folks who live in those houses, and people who visit them, would pay for the roads.
The subdivider should pay to have them built; the tolls would pay for maintenance and repair and suchlike, plus possibly paying back the subdivider&#039;s road investment eventually.

Could also consider tolls on new highways, for the same pay-by-users, perhaps.
Not practical for city streets, though: A new toll booth each time you turn a corner would get complicated.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re Roberto&#8217;s suggestion for toll roads:</p>
<p>I think they&#8217;d be a great idea for all those new roads the subdividers want for their new cover-the-foothills creations.<br />
That way, folks who live in those houses, and people who visit them, would pay for the roads.<br />
The subdivider should pay to have them built; the tolls would pay for maintenance and repair and suchlike, plus possibly paying back the subdivider&#8217;s road investment eventually.</p>
<p>Could also consider tolls on new highways, for the same pay-by-users, perhaps.<br />
Not practical for city streets, though: A new toll booth each time you turn a corner would get complicated.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AlphaDogReporter		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/10/17/gas-is-cheaper-but-what-about-roads/#comment-9841</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AlphaDogReporter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 01:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=1394#comment-9841</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This was the absolute dumbest idead that Otter has come up with to date.  I thought Kempthorne was a fruit loop but Otter has him beat by a mile.  The only workable solution is to raise registration fees, PERIOD.  A pay-per-mile program would cost more to administer than they would get out of it.  Yes you can argue this way and that way and who drives fewer and more miles, but the keyword is WORKABLE.  A fuel tax will not take into account electric vehicles or cars that get better mileage like hybrids.  We are already paying cheaper registration fees than most other states anyway.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was the absolute dumbest idead that Otter has come up with to date.  I thought Kempthorne was a fruit loop but Otter has him beat by a mile.  The only workable solution is to raise registration fees, PERIOD.  A pay-per-mile program would cost more to administer than they would get out of it.  Yes you can argue this way and that way and who drives fewer and more miles, but the keyword is WORKABLE.  A fuel tax will not take into account electric vehicles or cars that get better mileage like hybrids.  We are already paying cheaper registration fees than most other states anyway.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Taxed Out!		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/10/17/gas-is-cheaper-but-what-about-roads/#comment-9829</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Taxed Out!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 13:54:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=1394#comment-9829</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There are a lot of good comments on this post. Clearly, there is no easy, acceptable solution if we continue to want everything. At some point we either pay more taxes to not only maintain but also to build more roads or we let the roads we have fall apart and congestion increase. That is fine with me. On the other hand, a bit of moderation might help if it was focused on the long term realization that roads are taking up our most precious resource at an incredible rate and the benefit we receive for each mile will build is diminishing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a lot of good comments on this post. Clearly, there is no easy, acceptable solution if we continue to want everything. At some point we either pay more taxes to not only maintain but also to build more roads or we let the roads we have fall apart and congestion increase. That is fine with me. On the other hand, a bit of moderation might help if it was focused on the long term realization that roads are taking up our most precious resource at an incredible rate and the benefit we receive for each mile will build is diminishing.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Shane		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/10/17/gas-is-cheaper-but-what-about-roads/#comment-9828</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 08:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=1394#comment-9828</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[BB&#039;s got it right. Taxes should never be the first solution to a budget problem (and I used to think Otter followed that statement). The state must drastically cut spending. Now is absolutely NOT the time to raise taxes, Idahoans (and the rest of the country) are already broke due to this economy slump, and it&#039;s already expensive enough to operate a vehicle. If gas was $1.00 a gallon I may consider a gas tax. 

But again, raising taxes should not be the answer, the state should cut spending. Suppose &quot;Joe the Plumber&quot; is wants to buy some new tools, does he save up and buy them (or properly budget for them) or go out and get a credit card and spend money he does not own and can&#039;t manage? It goes the same for the State.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BB&#8217;s got it right. Taxes should never be the first solution to a budget problem (and I used to think Otter followed that statement). The state must drastically cut spending. Now is absolutely NOT the time to raise taxes, Idahoans (and the rest of the country) are already broke due to this economy slump, and it&#8217;s already expensive enough to operate a vehicle. If gas was $1.00 a gallon I may consider a gas tax. </p>
<p>But again, raising taxes should not be the answer, the state should cut spending. Suppose &#8220;Joe the Plumber&#8221; is wants to buy some new tools, does he save up and buy them (or properly budget for them) or go out and get a credit card and spend money he does not own and can&#8217;t manage? It goes the same for the State.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Roberto		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/10/17/gas-is-cheaper-but-what-about-roads/#comment-9827</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roberto]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 04:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=1394#comment-9827</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[BB is heading in the right direction.  I&#039;m all for lowering taxes to a flat rate of 10% and forcing the government to live within its means, even at the expense of cutting unconstitutional  inefficient and ineffective programs.

Just another thought to throw out there...TOLL ROADS! - Privately owned ones at that. 

I&#039;m all for privatizing everything that the government should not do.  Time has proven the government&#039;s incompetence in managing...well pretty much everything!

With today&#039;s technology, private toll roads would be very simple and effective.  Only those using the road pay for them.  The upkeep of the road would be better.  Safety would improve.

American people are much more capable than the American Government.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BB is heading in the right direction.  I&#8217;m all for lowering taxes to a flat rate of 10% and forcing the government to live within its means, even at the expense of cutting unconstitutional  inefficient and ineffective programs.</p>
<p>Just another thought to throw out there&#8230;TOLL ROADS! &#8211; Privately owned ones at that. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for privatizing everything that the government should not do.  Time has proven the government&#8217;s incompetence in managing&#8230;well pretty much everything!</p>
<p>With today&#8217;s technology, private toll roads would be very simple and effective.  Only those using the road pay for them.  The upkeep of the road would be better.  Safety would improve.</p>
<p>American people are much more capable than the American Government.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ericn1300		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/10/17/gas-is-cheaper-but-what-about-roads/#comment-9823</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ericn1300]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 00:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=1394#comment-9823</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Erico49, your own source belies your argument. [QUOTE=http://pavementinteractive.org/index.php?title=ESAL]The relationship between axle weight and inflicted pavement damage is not linear but exponential[/QUOTE] Wouldn&#039;t that mean the linear 7 times I estimated would be exponentially greater? The excessive weight of a Hummer over a Prius is not distributed over more axles or tires, rather it is concentrated into a smaller foot print. Oh and by the way, do you remember all the trucks that used to post “this truck pays $x,xxx in taxes each year”? I had little sympathy then, and less now.

Gordon seems to have a more realistic approach. Pay for your choices. My mother in-law only drives 600 miles a year and never on the interstate. Why should she pay the same as a daily commuter? My only argument with Gordon is when he says “Problem with that, of course, is that the all-electric vehicles won’t be paying anything toward roads”. My view is that we need to break the dependency on foreign oil first, then start looking at the cost of conservation (which will be considerably less than the cost of life in the current middle east war). And every electric car on the road lowers the cost of asphalt, a petroleum based product.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erico49, your own source belies your argument. [QUOTE=http://pavementinteractive.org/index.php?title=ESAL]The relationship between axle weight and inflicted pavement damage is not linear but exponential[/QUOTE] Wouldn&#8217;t that mean the linear 7 times I estimated would be exponentially greater? The excessive weight of a Hummer over a Prius is not distributed over more axles or tires, rather it is concentrated into a smaller foot print. Oh and by the way, do you remember all the trucks that used to post “this truck pays $x,xxx in taxes each year”? I had little sympathy then, and less now.</p>
<p>Gordon seems to have a more realistic approach. Pay for your choices. My mother in-law only drives 600 miles a year and never on the interstate. Why should she pay the same as a daily commuter? My only argument with Gordon is when he says “Problem with that, of course, is that the all-electric vehicles won’t be paying anything toward roads”. My view is that we need to break the dependency on foreign oil first, then start looking at the cost of conservation (which will be considerably less than the cost of life in the current middle east war). And every electric car on the road lowers the cost of asphalt, a petroleum based product.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gordon		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/10/17/gas-is-cheaper-but-what-about-roads/#comment-9822</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gordon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 21:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=1394#comment-9822</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Couple of thoughts:
1. Re Beavis and Butthead -- often, they&#039;re the same person. Many Idahoans have two or more vehicles, so they can use the one that&#039;s needed. 
For example, I have a Ford F350 one-ton that I use only when I need to haul a ton of hay while towing a trailer with another ton on it, or for other large, heavy loads. It weighs a lot, wears out the road, and gets lousy gas mileage; ergo, I pay lotsa gas tax for the roads when I use that one.
I also have a Ford 150 half- ton that I use for smaller stuff; weighs less, does less wear (and less pollution), and gets many more MPGs so I pay a bit less for the roads.
I also have a 1100-cc motorcycle; good for highway speeds at 30 MPG. And a 125-cc motorcycle, good for around town at 70 MPG.

OK, maybe I&#039;m extreme, but I know lotsa folks who  have a mid-size pickup, a full-size truck, a sedan, etc. and use the one that&#039;s right for the job. 

Oh, yeah, my wife and I also have a Jeep Grand Cherokee that gets 16 to 20 miles to the gallon, is all-wheel drive (much safer in Idaho&#039;s winters) and call haul us and our luggage, etc., or pick up fairly heavy stuff at the feed store or whatever. Much better for road trips etc. than the trucks or motorcycles.

And if I can ever figure out how to keep the goatheads from flattening the tires, I might get to riding a bicycle more. (Yeah, I&#039;ve tried the spray-in goop, the Kevlar tire liners, etc., but goatheads don&#039;t give up easily.

2. Ever see those pickups around town with wheels and tires that look like they belong on the giant earth-movers? Yep, those wheels turn many fewer times per mile than the normal ones, thus causing the odometer to turn many fewer times per thousand miles. So much for the accuracy of the electronic gizmos or checking the odometer at registration time (hard to do through the mail anyway) -- and without having to tweak the odometer.

You&#039;re right about one thing, though: There ain&#039;t no fair way. But fuel tax still comes the closest, since it makes me pay more when I drive my bigger truck, and gives me a break on the other vehicles.
Problem with that, of course, is that the all-electric  vehicles won&#039;t be paying anything toward roads. Hmmm.  

Nuts; just fix the bridges and let the roads go to hell. We real Idahoans will just drive our pickups and Jeeps and suchlike through the potholes, while the Californians and other aliens may just give up on moving here.

??????]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Couple of thoughts:<br />
1. Re Beavis and Butthead &#8212; often, they&#8217;re the same person. Many Idahoans have two or more vehicles, so they can use the one that&#8217;s needed.<br />
For example, I have a Ford F350 one-ton that I use only when I need to haul a ton of hay while towing a trailer with another ton on it, or for other large, heavy loads. It weighs a lot, wears out the road, and gets lousy gas mileage; ergo, I pay lotsa gas tax for the roads when I use that one.<br />
I also have a Ford 150 half- ton that I use for smaller stuff; weighs less, does less wear (and less pollution), and gets many more MPGs so I pay a bit less for the roads.<br />
I also have a 1100-cc motorcycle; good for highway speeds at 30 MPG. And a 125-cc motorcycle, good for around town at 70 MPG.</p>
<p>OK, maybe I&#8217;m extreme, but I know lotsa folks who  have a mid-size pickup, a full-size truck, a sedan, etc. and use the one that&#8217;s right for the job. </p>
<p>Oh, yeah, my wife and I also have a Jeep Grand Cherokee that gets 16 to 20 miles to the gallon, is all-wheel drive (much safer in Idaho&#8217;s winters) and call haul us and our luggage, etc., or pick up fairly heavy stuff at the feed store or whatever. Much better for road trips etc. than the trucks or motorcycles.</p>
<p>And if I can ever figure out how to keep the goatheads from flattening the tires, I might get to riding a bicycle more. (Yeah, I&#8217;ve tried the spray-in goop, the Kevlar tire liners, etc., but goatheads don&#8217;t give up easily.</p>
<p>2. Ever see those pickups around town with wheels and tires that look like they belong on the giant earth-movers? Yep, those wheels turn many fewer times per mile than the normal ones, thus causing the odometer to turn many fewer times per thousand miles. So much for the accuracy of the electronic gizmos or checking the odometer at registration time (hard to do through the mail anyway) &#8212; and without having to tweak the odometer.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right about one thing, though: There ain&#8217;t no fair way. But fuel tax still comes the closest, since it makes me pay more when I drive my bigger truck, and gives me a break on the other vehicles.<br />
Problem with that, of course, is that the all-electric  vehicles won&#8217;t be paying anything toward roads. Hmmm.  </p>
<p>Nuts; just fix the bridges and let the roads go to hell. We real Idahoans will just drive our pickups and Jeeps and suchlike through the potholes, while the Californians and other aliens may just give up on moving here.</p>
<p>??????</p>
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		<title>
		By: BB		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/10/17/gas-is-cheaper-but-what-about-roads/#comment-9821</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 18:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=1394#comment-9821</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Most of you are operating under the incorrect assumption that taxes or fees must be raised somewhere to meet this need.  Might I propose that with a 3+ Billion dollar annual budget (5+ if Feds are included) that the money is already there.

Just for amusement sake, let&#039;s assume that the state acts like an everyday Joe and only spends what it &quot;makes&quot;.  hmmm... now that is a novelty.  I guess they&#039;d have to re-prioritize instead of reaching into our collective pockets when they REALLY want something.  Yup, tough decisions would be required, so I&#039;ll make the first sacrifice - I watch PBS, but I&#039;ll give it up and watch the free network stations.  Now the state can spend that 4 Million dollars on roads - wow, that was easy.  Ok, since we REALLY need these roads, this year, we&#039;re only going to give out 10 Million dollars in scholarships instead of 20 Million.  GREAT - I just found $14 Million dollars to cut from the budget that really doesn&#039;t hurt that bad...only 236 Million to go - who&#039;s next?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of you are operating under the incorrect assumption that taxes or fees must be raised somewhere to meet this need.  Might I propose that with a 3+ Billion dollar annual budget (5+ if Feds are included) that the money is already there.</p>
<p>Just for amusement sake, let&#8217;s assume that the state acts like an everyday Joe and only spends what it &#8220;makes&#8221;.  hmmm&#8230; now that is a novelty.  I guess they&#8217;d have to re-prioritize instead of reaching into our collective pockets when they REALLY want something.  Yup, tough decisions would be required, so I&#8217;ll make the first sacrifice &#8211; I watch PBS, but I&#8217;ll give it up and watch the free network stations.  Now the state can spend that 4 Million dollars on roads &#8211; wow, that was easy.  Ok, since we REALLY need these roads, this year, we&#8217;re only going to give out 10 Million dollars in scholarships instead of 20 Million.  GREAT &#8211; I just found $14 Million dollars to cut from the budget that really doesn&#8217;t hurt that bad&#8230;only 236 Million to go &#8211; who&#8217;s next?</p>
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		By: erico49		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/10/17/gas-is-cheaper-but-what-about-roads/#comment-9820</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[erico49]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=1394#comment-9820</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Let me be a bit more accurate. Ericn you are right that there is a difference between the Prius and the Hummer. However, that difference becomes negligible when you compare either to a truck. Damage to roads increases exponentially with axle weight.
http://pavementinteractive.org/index.php?title=ESAL

The number of lanes are a factor of the number of cars, not the size of those cars. The roadbed design is a function of weight. 1,000 hummers per day or 1,000 Prius per day.. equates to the same requirement for lanes. And gas tax no longer reflects miles driven on the road as it did originally. Registration fees don&#039;t account for the difference between the person driving all day and the little old lady who drives to the grocery store once each week.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me be a bit more accurate. Ericn you are right that there is a difference between the Prius and the Hummer. However, that difference becomes negligible when you compare either to a truck. Damage to roads increases exponentially with axle weight.<br />
<a href="http://pavementinteractive.org/index.php?title=ESAL" rel="nofollow ugc">http://pavementinteractive.org/index.php?title=ESAL</a></p>
<p>The number of lanes are a factor of the number of cars, not the size of those cars. The roadbed design is a function of weight. 1,000 hummers per day or 1,000 Prius per day.. equates to the same requirement for lanes. And gas tax no longer reflects miles driven on the road as it did originally. Registration fees don&#8217;t account for the difference between the person driving all day and the little old lady who drives to the grocery store once each week.</p>
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		<title>
		By: The Boise Picayune		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2008/10/17/gas-is-cheaper-but-what-about-roads/#comment-9819</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Boise Picayune]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 15:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=1394#comment-9819</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Gas Taxes, Graduated Registration Fees (based on punishment said vehicle subjects infrastructure to), Institution of Commercial Registrations (for instance, a taxi is generally on the roads 24/7), and Highway Use Tax for out of state big rigs (payable at existing ITD weigh stations).

It&#039;s all gonna cost a wee bit more; but - in case you haven&#039;t noticed - the &quot;Free Ride&quot; is over.

We want roads, mass transit, etc..? The money&#039;s gotta come from somewhere.

And suckling at the tit of the Ponzi Scheme known as the Fed (as in &quot;Reserve&quot; and &quot;Gov&#039;t&quot;) can&#039;t be relied upon any longer (traditionally, Idaho is one of the few states that receives far more in federal Aid than it pays out in taxes).

&quot;A definition of madness is trying the same things over and over and expecting different results.&quot;  ~Albert Einstein]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gas Taxes, Graduated Registration Fees (based on punishment said vehicle subjects infrastructure to), Institution of Commercial Registrations (for instance, a taxi is generally on the roads 24/7), and Highway Use Tax for out of state big rigs (payable at existing ITD weigh stations).</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all gonna cost a wee bit more; but &#8211; in case you haven&#8217;t noticed &#8211; the &#8220;Free Ride&#8221; is over.</p>
<p>We want roads, mass transit, etc..? The money&#8217;s gotta come from somewhere.</p>
<p>And suckling at the tit of the Ponzi Scheme known as the Fed (as in &#8220;Reserve&#8221; and &#8220;Gov&#8217;t&#8221;) can&#8217;t be relied upon any longer (traditionally, Idaho is one of the few states that receives far more in federal Aid than it pays out in taxes).</p>
<p>&#8220;A definition of madness is trying the same things over and over and expecting different results.&#8221;  ~Albert Einstein</p>
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