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	Comments on: &#8220;We Don&#8217;t Need No Stinkin&#8217; Feasibility Study&#8221;	</title>
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	<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/08/11/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-feasibility-study/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:06:56 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: John Q Publique		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/08/11/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-feasibility-study/#comment-14174</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Q Publique]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:06:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3185#comment-14174</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mr. Watcher,

First, thank you for the compliment.

Second, I’m for moving people from west (and west of) Boise into Boise in the most cost effective manner possible.  So I’d be going with high occupancy vehicle (HOV) lanes, van pools, car pools, express commuter buses, and bus rapid transit (BRT) to accomplish that. 

Folks that I know who have worked in the public transit business tell me that’s the most cost effective way to go for Boise right now.  Commuter rail may work in San Diego but, besides better year round weather, San Diego has a lot more people and much higher population density than Boise.  I’m told population, and more importantly population density, are critical factors for rail service (commuter, light, streetcar, etc)and that Boise barely has the population density now to support a bus system let alone rail of any type.  I’m also told COMPASS planners have said in open meetings that they don’t foresee the population density of the Valley changing very significantly over the next 20 – 30 years.

Those “experts” listed a total of 5 reasons why commuter rail is not a good idea for Boise.  In addition to too many crossings, the story lists poor track quality, insufficient right of way, competition from freight traffic, and high cost / no money.  The transit folks I know were totally shocked at the “experts” findings.  They were thinking here comes another pep rally.  It was the opposite.  The story is still on line at: http://www.idahostatesman.com/transportation/story/771363.html .  Maybe the Guardian could have his transportation correspondent research prior studies about the Boise rail line.  I’m told studies have been done and using the current tracks isn’t quite as simple as it first appears.

As to government, I expect government at all levels to deliver the highest possible level of service to its citizens while operating in the most efficient manner possible.  I expect all public officials (and employees) to be proper stewards of the taxpayer dollar.  I don’t support schemes by public officials to increase revenue so they can further their “legacies.” The Downtown Streetcar and commuter or light rail are examples of the legacy category in my opinion.  Folks I know that have worked in the public sector tell me the waste of public money is incredible - particularly in school districts.  That’s the short version of my government philosophy.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Watcher,</p>
<p>First, thank you for the compliment.</p>
<p>Second, I’m for moving people from west (and west of) Boise into Boise in the most cost effective manner possible.  So I’d be going with high occupancy vehicle (HOV) lanes, van pools, car pools, express commuter buses, and bus rapid transit (BRT) to accomplish that. </p>
<p>Folks that I know who have worked in the public transit business tell me that’s the most cost effective way to go for Boise right now.  Commuter rail may work in San Diego but, besides better year round weather, San Diego has a lot more people and much higher population density than Boise.  I’m told population, and more importantly population density, are critical factors for rail service (commuter, light, streetcar, etc)and that Boise barely has the population density now to support a bus system let alone rail of any type.  I’m also told COMPASS planners have said in open meetings that they don’t foresee the population density of the Valley changing very significantly over the next 20 – 30 years.</p>
<p>Those “experts” listed a total of 5 reasons why commuter rail is not a good idea for Boise.  In addition to too many crossings, the story lists poor track quality, insufficient right of way, competition from freight traffic, and high cost / no money.  The transit folks I know were totally shocked at the “experts” findings.  They were thinking here comes another pep rally.  It was the opposite.  The story is still on line at: <a href="http://www.idahostatesman.com/transportation/story/771363.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.idahostatesman.com/transportation/story/771363.html</a> .  Maybe the Guardian could have his transportation correspondent research prior studies about the Boise rail line.  I’m told studies have been done and using the current tracks isn’t quite as simple as it first appears.</p>
<p>As to government, I expect government at all levels to deliver the highest possible level of service to its citizens while operating in the most efficient manner possible.  I expect all public officials (and employees) to be proper stewards of the taxpayer dollar.  I don’t support schemes by public officials to increase revenue so they can further their “legacies.” The Downtown Streetcar and commuter or light rail are examples of the legacy category in my opinion.  Folks I know that have worked in the public sector tell me the waste of public money is incredible &#8211; particularly in school districts.  That’s the short version of my government philosophy.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lucas Baumbach		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/08/11/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-feasibility-study/#comment-14172</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lucas Baumbach]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3185#comment-14172</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[John:  Stating that one idea would be more beneficial than another is not a statement of undying support or an exhaustive analysis.  I&#039;m sorry that you expect one press-release about Amtrak and alternative ideas for stimulus money to be an exhaustive legislative proposal.  You have not contacted my campaign heretofore requesting information concerning my positions.  You say that I don&#039;t have facts, insinuating that I am devoid of content, but you have made little effort outside this forum to get facts.  There you go.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John:  Stating that one idea would be more beneficial than another is not a statement of undying support or an exhaustive analysis.  I&#8217;m sorry that you expect one press-release about Amtrak and alternative ideas for stimulus money to be an exhaustive legislative proposal.  You have not contacted my campaign heretofore requesting information concerning my positions.  You say that I don&#8217;t have facts, insinuating that I am devoid of content, but you have made little effort outside this forum to get facts.  There you go.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mr. Watcher		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/08/11/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-feasibility-study/#comment-14158</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mr. Watcher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3185#comment-14158</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[JQP, if you want to move people from the west into Boise and do it in a cost effective way. Use the rail that is in place now. All that is needed is parking lots and some trains. I have seen what San Diego did to move people from the north into downtown using rail tracks that were in place and being used for commercial rail operations. 
One thing that clearly comes out in your well thought out replies is. You believe government is somewhat of a business. Government does things for revenue as if its a private business. Services preformed by government are services that the citizens pay for and are not in place to make money to feed the tax feed for employment. A classic example of this is bring in new business into Idaho. This isn&#039;t done to help the citizens with jobs but to get more tax money. So clearly government is serving themselves  first and foremost and if the citizens get a few jobs so be it. 
All being said, I didn&#039;t know about the experts at the meeting you noted saying this project wouldn&#039;t work in Boise because of all and too many crossing. Thank you for bring up that bit of information.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JQP, if you want to move people from the west into Boise and do it in a cost effective way. Use the rail that is in place now. All that is needed is parking lots and some trains. I have seen what San Diego did to move people from the north into downtown using rail tracks that were in place and being used for commercial rail operations.<br />
One thing that clearly comes out in your well thought out replies is. You believe government is somewhat of a business. Government does things for revenue as if its a private business. Services preformed by government are services that the citizens pay for and are not in place to make money to feed the tax feed for employment. A classic example of this is bring in new business into Idaho. This isn&#8217;t done to help the citizens with jobs but to get more tax money. So clearly government is serving themselves  first and foremost and if the citizens get a few jobs so be it.<br />
All being said, I didn&#8217;t know about the experts at the meeting you noted saying this project wouldn&#8217;t work in Boise because of all and too many crossing. Thank you for bring up that bit of information.</p>
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		<title>
		By: John Q Publique		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/08/11/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-feasibility-study/#comment-14141</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Q Publique]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:57:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3185#comment-14141</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Lucas

Part of your rather rambling press release says:

“The local area would benefit from a commuter train instead of an Amtrak line.  We are widening I-84 to handle more commuter traffic, but we aren&#039;t putting in a commuter train.  This would actually help reduce pollution, especially if we built a nuclear plant to power electric (not diesel) commuter trains.  These trains could stop in all the major bedroom communities and actually benefit Boise.”

That’s not a proposal?  Where’s the mention about trolleys?

And I really do care about your opinions and proposals.  I care about the opinions and proposals of ALL city council candidates.  I would be very much interested in hearing your proposals about improving the bus system.  This is the first I&#039;ve heard you have a position on that.  Or, from another post, what your proposal for sidewalks actually is.  Maybe you could post your proposals on your web site so everyone could see them.  The (rather rambling) press releases also.

Maybe you could tell us how you propose the City make up the $ 500,000 (or so) loss in revenue from the use of the City owned portion of the railroad tracks should Amtrak return to Boise.  Or your position on the HOV lanes, some of which will be in Boise.  Or how you plan to monitor and eventually reduce, or at least slow the growth in, the City budget.  I’d be interested in learning about your positions on those issues also.

As to bias, my only bias is that candidates for City Council have their facts right.  So far, in my opinion, you’re not doing too well in that department.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lucas</p>
<p>Part of your rather rambling press release says:</p>
<p>“The local area would benefit from a commuter train instead of an Amtrak line.  We are widening I-84 to handle more commuter traffic, but we aren&#8217;t putting in a commuter train.  This would actually help reduce pollution, especially if we built a nuclear plant to power electric (not diesel) commuter trains.  These trains could stop in all the major bedroom communities and actually benefit Boise.”</p>
<p>That’s not a proposal?  Where’s the mention about trolleys?</p>
<p>And I really do care about your opinions and proposals.  I care about the opinions and proposals of ALL city council candidates.  I would be very much interested in hearing your proposals about improving the bus system.  This is the first I&#8217;ve heard you have a position on that.  Or, from another post, what your proposal for sidewalks actually is.  Maybe you could post your proposals on your web site so everyone could see them.  The (rather rambling) press releases also.</p>
<p>Maybe you could tell us how you propose the City make up the $ 500,000 (or so) loss in revenue from the use of the City owned portion of the railroad tracks should Amtrak return to Boise.  Or your position on the HOV lanes, some of which will be in Boise.  Or how you plan to monitor and eventually reduce, or at least slow the growth in, the City budget.  I’d be interested in learning about your positions on those issues also.</p>
<p>As to bias, my only bias is that candidates for City Council have their facts right.  So far, in my opinion, you’re not doing too well in that department.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lucas Baumbach		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/08/11/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-feasibility-study/#comment-14133</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lucas Baumbach]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 05:49:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3185#comment-14133</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I didn&#039;t propose anything.  I noted in my press release that if we&#039;re talking trains we should talk about commuter line not trolleys and Amtrak.  Most people I know are interested in commuter solutions.  If you really cared about my opinions, you&#039;d have gathered that I&#039;m more interested in substantially improving bus service than Lionel pipe dreams.  You get an &quot;A&quot; for building straw man arguments against me.  Your bias is getting pretty obvious.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t propose anything.  I noted in my press release that if we&#8217;re talking trains we should talk about commuter line not trolleys and Amtrak.  Most people I know are interested in commuter solutions.  If you really cared about my opinions, you&#8217;d have gathered that I&#8217;m more interested in substantially improving bus service than Lionel pipe dreams.  You get an &#8220;A&#8221; for building straw man arguments against me.  Your bias is getting pretty obvious.</p>
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		<title>
		By: John Q Publique		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/08/11/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-feasibility-study/#comment-14121</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Q Publique]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 05:20:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3185#comment-14121</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Lucas,

Good job.  You get an A.  Maybe even a gold star.  You know the names of the streets where traffic might get stopped if Amtrak came to town.  You got something right for a change.  But since we don’t know yet what the Amtrak schedule might be, we don’t know if Amtrak would in fact stop traffic on those streets during critical times like morning and evening rush hours.

But it is a safe bet those same streets, and air quality, would be adversely impacted by a commuter train.  Like the one you propose.  That train might even worsen air quality rather than improve it.  Why?  Because it would tie traffic flow into knots as the train passes through each grade crossing at those streets.  Commuter rail, by definition, would need to operate during the morning and evening rush hours at a minimum.

Back in May the so called “experts” told a gathering at BSU that commuter rail would not work in the Treasure Valley because, among other things, there are too many crossings.  Like the ones you’ve noted.  Maybe you missed that forum.  This is one of the few times I’d agree with the so called “experts.”

So instead of promoting a choo choo, how about enlightening yourself about the HOV (that would be High Occupancy Vehicle) lanes that have been, and are being, built into I – 84 as part of the widening project.  Then enlighten us how you think they could be used to best advantage.

For starters, maybe they could be used for express commuter buses, bus rapid transit (also know as BRT), van pools, or car pools.  All lower cost public transportation forms than a commuter rail line.

Please, enlighten us.  And when you enlighten us maybe you also could enlighten us as to the difference you see between Amtrak and the commuter rail line you propose.  Both would tie up traffic.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lucas,</p>
<p>Good job.  You get an A.  Maybe even a gold star.  You know the names of the streets where traffic might get stopped if Amtrak came to town.  You got something right for a change.  But since we don’t know yet what the Amtrak schedule might be, we don’t know if Amtrak would in fact stop traffic on those streets during critical times like morning and evening rush hours.</p>
<p>But it is a safe bet those same streets, and air quality, would be adversely impacted by a commuter train.  Like the one you propose.  That train might even worsen air quality rather than improve it.  Why?  Because it would tie traffic flow into knots as the train passes through each grade crossing at those streets.  Commuter rail, by definition, would need to operate during the morning and evening rush hours at a minimum.</p>
<p>Back in May the so called “experts” told a gathering at BSU that commuter rail would not work in the Treasure Valley because, among other things, there are too many crossings.  Like the ones you’ve noted.  Maybe you missed that forum.  This is one of the few times I’d agree with the so called “experts.”</p>
<p>So instead of promoting a choo choo, how about enlightening yourself about the HOV (that would be High Occupancy Vehicle) lanes that have been, and are being, built into I – 84 as part of the widening project.  Then enlighten us how you think they could be used to best advantage.</p>
<p>For starters, maybe they could be used for express commuter buses, bus rapid transit (also know as BRT), van pools, or car pools.  All lower cost public transportation forms than a commuter rail line.</p>
<p>Please, enlighten us.  And when you enlighten us maybe you also could enlighten us as to the difference you see between Amtrak and the commuter rail line you propose.  Both would tie up traffic.</p>
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		<title>
		By: TJ		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/08/11/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-feasibility-study/#comment-14116</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3185#comment-14116</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Good point, Lucas.  I don&#039;t go downtown anymore after working there for 30 years.  I think that was what Watcher was referring to in talking about traffic tie ups.

You are right about all the north/south intersections on the bench which would be affected by trains.  We try to stay north of State Street if at all possible.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point, Lucas.  I don&#8217;t go downtown anymore after working there for 30 years.  I think that was what Watcher was referring to in talking about traffic tie ups.</p>
<p>You are right about all the north/south intersections on the bench which would be affected by trains.  We try to stay north of State Street if at all possible.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gordon		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/08/11/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-feasibility-study/#comment-14112</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gordon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3185#comment-14112</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Feasibility study? Like the do on the dams/salmon debates -- and have been doing for longer than most of us can remember.
For the millions of dollars they&#039;ve spent on that, the probably could have created something at actually would let the fish go where they need to go and still keep the dams doing their thing.
Or how about the Boise comprehensive plan(s); studied to death, approved every few years, and then mostly ignored.
Or the studies on nuclear plants. Duh.
Nope, studies wouldn&#039;t help, but they sure would cost a lot of money.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Feasibility study? Like the do on the dams/salmon debates &#8212; and have been doing for longer than most of us can remember.<br />
For the millions of dollars they&#8217;ve spent on that, the probably could have created something at actually would let the fish go where they need to go and still keep the dams doing their thing.<br />
Or how about the Boise comprehensive plan(s); studied to death, approved every few years, and then mostly ignored.<br />
Or the studies on nuclear plants. Duh.<br />
Nope, studies wouldn&#8217;t help, but they sure would cost a lot of money.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Daniel L Dunham		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/08/11/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-feasibility-study/#comment-14109</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daniel L Dunham]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3185#comment-14109</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Why was this done before the feasibility study was out?  Will the feasability study hold any weight with the Bieter Brigade?  Or will the feasibility study be received like public testimony is received by this bunch?  How will this be paid for after the porkulus, I mean stimulus money is gone?  Could we run a bus to simulate the trolley before we tear up the streets, put down track that will disrupt bicycles and purchase a trolley?  Is there a successful trolley system anywhere?  Will these two fiascos be like the library sham?  Voters say no to more taxes for libraries, yet we have all these new libraries.  Time for people on the council and in the mayors chair that actually serve the people and listen to their concerns.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why was this done before the feasibility study was out?  Will the feasability study hold any weight with the Bieter Brigade?  Or will the feasibility study be received like public testimony is received by this bunch?  How will this be paid for after the porkulus, I mean stimulus money is gone?  Could we run a bus to simulate the trolley before we tear up the streets, put down track that will disrupt bicycles and purchase a trolley?  Is there a successful trolley system anywhere?  Will these two fiascos be like the library sham?  Voters say no to more taxes for libraries, yet we have all these new libraries.  Time for people on the council and in the mayors chair that actually serve the people and listen to their concerns.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lucas Baumbach		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/08/11/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-feasibility-study/#comment-14107</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lucas Baumbach]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3185#comment-14107</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Anyone care to enlighten TJ about all the crossings where the train would stop traffic?  Orchard, Curtis, Cole, Milwaukee, Maple Grove, Five Mile, Cloverdale, Eagle Road, Meridian Road to name a few biggies.  This is typical of a downtown mentality, which is out of touch with the rest of Idaho.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone care to enlighten TJ about all the crossings where the train would stop traffic?  Orchard, Curtis, Cole, Milwaukee, Maple Grove, Five Mile, Cloverdale, Eagle Road, Meridian Road to name a few biggies.  This is typical of a downtown mentality, which is out of touch with the rest of Idaho.</p>
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