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	Comments on: Boise Ambulance Deal Full Of Holes	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Lisa		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/08/18/boise-ambulance-deal-full-of-holes/#comment-14231</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lisa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3253#comment-14231</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Nemo. Read my last comments in the preveous article abot EMS in Ada County. Discoboy made some pretty severe comments about BFD Paramedics patient care. Now IF those accusations have merit and any Ada Couty Paramedic witnessed them and didn&#039;t report it to state ems then YOUR arguments about who provide the best patient care goes out the window. Isn&#039;t some of this debate about Quality Patient Care?.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nemo. Read my last comments in the preveous article abot EMS in Ada County. Discoboy made some pretty severe comments about BFD Paramedics patient care. Now IF those accusations have merit and any Ada Couty Paramedic witnessed them and didn&#8217;t report it to state ems then YOUR arguments about who provide the best patient care goes out the window. Isn&#8217;t some of this debate about Quality Patient Care?.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jason		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/08/18/boise-ambulance-deal-full-of-holes/#comment-14230</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3253#comment-14230</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Watching:

The issues with private services are they are private and looking to make a profit.  It&#039;s really that simple.  What it equates to is usually lower standards of equipment, lower salaries, higher staff turnover, a lesser standard of care (due to the previous factors and a lack of trust between physicians and paramedics).  All privates are not bad, there are some good examples.  The best service in the country however is an ALS 3rd service, which is the model ACP was originally formed on (It is fairly different now then at start up).  As I have said publicly and privately to FF and Paramedics alike, I would be in favor of a public safety division / metro system and many FF and paramedics have agreed with that.  If there is any voting to be done, the citizens should start a grass roots movement to initiate this... it can be done and should be.  That is where the cost savings to the taxpayers lie.  ACP might be &quot;Heavy&quot; on upper admin, but that&#039;s one department, not five.  I believe though that the present way of trying to slide in an ambulance to replace an existing ambulance, is nothing but smoke and mirrors to try and beat the changes underway by the State EMS bureau and nothing more.  There is no justification and it&#039;s sad we (all of us) have to fight this battle, whatever our personal motivations may be.  City / County government should be more inclusive and open about what they are doing / planning to do and communicate this with the public.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Watching:</p>
<p>The issues with private services are they are private and looking to make a profit.  It&#8217;s really that simple.  What it equates to is usually lower standards of equipment, lower salaries, higher staff turnover, a lesser standard of care (due to the previous factors and a lack of trust between physicians and paramedics).  All privates are not bad, there are some good examples.  The best service in the country however is an ALS 3rd service, which is the model ACP was originally formed on (It is fairly different now then at start up).  As I have said publicly and privately to FF and Paramedics alike, I would be in favor of a public safety division / metro system and many FF and paramedics have agreed with that.  If there is any voting to be done, the citizens should start a grass roots movement to initiate this&#8230; it can be done and should be.  That is where the cost savings to the taxpayers lie.  ACP might be &#8220;Heavy&#8221; on upper admin, but that&#8217;s one department, not five.  I believe though that the present way of trying to slide in an ambulance to replace an existing ambulance, is nothing but smoke and mirrors to try and beat the changes underway by the State EMS bureau and nothing more.  There is no justification and it&#8217;s sad we (all of us) have to fight this battle, whatever our personal motivations may be.  City / County government should be more inclusive and open about what they are doing / planning to do and communicate this with the public.</p>
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		<title>
		By: City Watch		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/08/18/boise-ambulance-deal-full-of-holes/#comment-14229</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[City Watch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:54:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3253#comment-14229</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[BG - I am more concerned with the possible violoation of Idaho State Constitution....do you happen to know the specific case law where the Idaho Supreme Court ruled &quot;lease-purchase&quot; unconstitutional?  

Lisa....You have always responded with well thought out information to all of my questions.  You seem to have a lot of experience with both the workings of Fire Departments, Emergency Agencies, and the Federal Government (ie  NIMS...something you mentioned in one of your posts to me....lol).  Please do not take anything to heart when people respond to your posts....there just appears to be a lot of emotion on the subject....Also, can you comment on BG&#039;s supreme court comment...do you as well agree it is unconstitutional....

can anyone else comment on this issue who may have information....

Thank You

EDITOR NOTE--Without going into too much detail, the law actually has my name on it:  &quot;FRAZIER DECISION.&quot;  Article VIII, sec. 3 of the constitution says no long term debt without a 2/3 assent of the voters.  A purchase is a purchase is a purchase regardless of what you call it.  You own it at the end you BOUGHT IT!  You can GOOGLE  &quot;FRAZIER DECISION IDAHO&quot; in quotes and learn more than you ever wanted to know.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BG &#8211; I am more concerned with the possible violoation of Idaho State Constitution&#8230;.do you happen to know the specific case law where the Idaho Supreme Court ruled &#8220;lease-purchase&#8221; unconstitutional?  </p>
<p>Lisa&#8230;.You have always responded with well thought out information to all of my questions.  You seem to have a lot of experience with both the workings of Fire Departments, Emergency Agencies, and the Federal Government (ie  NIMS&#8230;something you mentioned in one of your posts to me&#8230;.lol).  Please do not take anything to heart when people respond to your posts&#8230;.there just appears to be a lot of emotion on the subject&#8230;.Also, can you comment on BG&#8217;s supreme court comment&#8230;do you as well agree it is unconstitutional&#8230;.</p>
<p>can anyone else comment on this issue who may have information&#8230;.</p>
<p>Thank You</p>
<p>EDITOR NOTE&#8211;Without going into too much detail, the law actually has my name on it:  &#8220;FRAZIER DECISION.&#8221;  Article VIII, sec. 3 of the constitution says no long term debt without a 2/3 assent of the voters.  A purchase is a purchase is a purchase regardless of what you call it.  You own it at the end you BOUGHT IT!  You can GOOGLE  &#8220;FRAZIER DECISION IDAHO&#8221; in quotes and learn more than you ever wanted to know.</p>
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		<title>
		By: watching too		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/08/18/boise-ambulance-deal-full-of-holes/#comment-14228</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[watching too]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3253#comment-14228</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Nemo, maybe I went too far with the bloated salary comment. I did not suggest you were lazy. However, you have not answered why privatization would not work. Duplication is wrong, but the free market has proven that it can perform your function at a lower cost. I imagine you will come back at me with some sort of statistics you have been gathering for years, but I am sure if I were in tune to this suject I could produce stats that would paint private EMS service in a good light too.  Bottom-line it for me. Why wouldn&#039;t you work for a private service? The market will bear out your true salary. If we the tax-paying consumer demand your level of skill and experience, you will be paid exactly what you make right now.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nemo, maybe I went too far with the bloated salary comment. I did not suggest you were lazy. However, you have not answered why privatization would not work. Duplication is wrong, but the free market has proven that it can perform your function at a lower cost. I imagine you will come back at me with some sort of statistics you have been gathering for years, but I am sure if I were in tune to this suject I could produce stats that would paint private EMS service in a good light too.  Bottom-line it for me. Why wouldn&#8217;t you work for a private service? The market will bear out your true salary. If we the tax-paying consumer demand your level of skill and experience, you will be paid exactly what you make right now.</p>
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		<title>
		By: brat1		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/08/18/boise-ambulance-deal-full-of-holes/#comment-14227</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[brat1]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3253#comment-14227</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The bottom line as I see it-- Any changes made in the present system need to be discussed openly by all concerned parties in open hearings and then any changes voted on by taxpayers involved.There also needs to be cost and quality assessments done by independent experts in all fields involved.   Not done behind our backs in the dark of the night!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The bottom line as I see it&#8211; Any changes made in the present system need to be discussed openly by all concerned parties in open hearings and then any changes voted on by taxpayers involved.There also needs to be cost and quality assessments done by independent experts in all fields involved.   Not done behind our backs in the dark of the night!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Your Wrong		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/08/18/boise-ambulance-deal-full-of-holes/#comment-14226</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Your Wrong]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:49:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3253#comment-14226</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Tired of FD Politics, YOU ARE WRONG. A first year FF makes 15.09 and hr. A BFD Battalion Chief gets paid 27.04 an hour, not the 40-50 and hr YOU claim.  In fact, a 10 yr Boise City Patrol Officer makes more, ($29.85 an hr) than a 20 yr BFD Battalion Chief. 

And where did I get this info...from the same website that you listed. 

With this much mis inforamtion, it just reaffirms my distrust in the BG.

EDITOR NOTE-- Hey Mr. Wrong, the BG specifically offered a disclaimer that we did NOT provide the wage figures and they came from a reader.  We offer the forum to everyone--you included.  We will stand behind EVERYTHING we post and challenge you to show us a factual error in OUR reporting.  If we report it, we have it nailed in advance.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tired of FD Politics, YOU ARE WRONG. A first year FF makes 15.09 and hr. A BFD Battalion Chief gets paid 27.04 an hour, not the 40-50 and hr YOU claim.  In fact, a 10 yr Boise City Patrol Officer makes more, ($29.85 an hr) than a 20 yr BFD Battalion Chief. </p>
<p>And where did I get this info&#8230;from the same website that you listed. </p>
<p>With this much mis inforamtion, it just reaffirms my distrust in the BG.</p>
<p>EDITOR NOTE&#8211; Hey Mr. Wrong, the BG specifically offered a disclaimer that we did NOT provide the wage figures and they came from a reader.  We offer the forum to everyone&#8211;you included.  We will stand behind EVERYTHING we post and challenge you to show us a factual error in OUR reporting.  If we report it, we have it nailed in advance.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tired of Taxes		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/08/18/boise-ambulance-deal-full-of-holes/#comment-14225</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tired of Taxes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3253#comment-14225</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ada County has declined to add the %3 property tax increase for several years, Boise City has again taken the full %3 and will increase your taxes. Who is more responsible with your money? Boise City can afford to buy ambulances, trolleys, trains and higher salaries because they are spending YOUR money. In these tough economic times when others are cutting back, Boise City is spending more.
I do not know why this has to be about turf.  Just give me the best bang for my BUCK while making sure my medical needs are met.  Until BFD can give facts how they can improve in these areas...stay OUT.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ada County has declined to add the %3 property tax increase for several years, Boise City has again taken the full %3 and will increase your taxes. Who is more responsible with your money? Boise City can afford to buy ambulances, trolleys, trains and higher salaries because they are spending YOUR money. In these tough economic times when others are cutting back, Boise City is spending more.<br />
I do not know why this has to be about turf.  Just give me the best bang for my BUCK while making sure my medical needs are met.  Until BFD can give facts how they can improve in these areas&#8230;stay OUT.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Casual Observer		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/08/18/boise-ambulance-deal-full-of-holes/#comment-14224</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Casual Observer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3253#comment-14224</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Cyclops,

This may come as a shock, but I agree with you, and anyone else, who thinks the underlying motives in this power play are cheap, tawdry, underhanded, and on and on.  

Your distaste for the mayor is well documented.  I have a similar distaste for the Commissioners, who, in my opinion, comprise a full half of this problem.  

That said, as a tax payer, I cannot see the difference between a broken leg riding in a Red Truck and a broken leg riding in a White Truck.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cyclops,</p>
<p>This may come as a shock, but I agree with you, and anyone else, who thinks the underlying motives in this power play are cheap, tawdry, underhanded, and on and on.  </p>
<p>Your distaste for the mayor is well documented.  I have a similar distaste for the Commissioners, who, in my opinion, comprise a full half of this problem.  </p>
<p>That said, as a tax payer, I cannot see the difference between a broken leg riding in a Red Truck and a broken leg riding in a White Truck.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Casual Observer		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/08/18/boise-ambulance-deal-full-of-holes/#comment-14222</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Casual Observer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3253#comment-14222</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Nemo,

What I want to see is a concrete list of reasons why the Red Team cannot do the White Team&#039;s job just as well.  

If the Red Team buys all the White Team&#039;s trucks, paints over the logos, and hires all the White Team&#039;s staff, where is the difference?  

  How does the patient suffer?  

  Where is the lack of cohesion?  

  Where is there a loss of jobs?  (Okay, you might have me there.  Sounds like you may have burnt some bridges with the Red Team.)  

  Why should the public care?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nemo,</p>
<p>What I want to see is a concrete list of reasons why the Red Team cannot do the White Team&#8217;s job just as well.  </p>
<p>If the Red Team buys all the White Team&#8217;s trucks, paints over the logos, and hires all the White Team&#8217;s staff, where is the difference?  </p>
<p>  How does the patient suffer?  </p>
<p>  Where is the lack of cohesion?  </p>
<p>  Where is there a loss of jobs?  (Okay, you might have me there.  Sounds like you may have burnt some bridges with the Red Team.)  </p>
<p>  Why should the public care?</p>
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		<title>
		By: cyclops		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/08/18/boise-ambulance-deal-full-of-holes/#comment-14221</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cyclops]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3253#comment-14221</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Casual, don&#039;t mis-interpret my position. I am no fan of ACEMS. My stand goes back many years when they tried, and continue to,make John Fogg&#039;s life miserable when he started ADA-BOI.ACEMS started as an &quot;on scene, stabilization service&quot; with transport by private ambulance. Then they wanted the transport as well, and have been &quot;empire growing&quot; ever since.
Currently, it appears that the City is trying to do to ACEMS what ACEMS did to ADA-BOI 25 years ago. It was wrong then and it is wrong today.
This is clearly an effort by the City of Boise to try and put ACEMS out of business, because once Boise goes, so will all the other cities in the valley. If the purpose was to return to an era of &quot;on scene life support and stabilization&quot; by the BFD and then private transport I could get behind that. (Just as soon as Dave Bieter is no longer mayor)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Casual, don&#8217;t mis-interpret my position. I am no fan of ACEMS. My stand goes back many years when they tried, and continue to,make John Fogg&#8217;s life miserable when he started ADA-BOI.ACEMS started as an &#8220;on scene, stabilization service&#8221; with transport by private ambulance. Then they wanted the transport as well, and have been &#8220;empire growing&#8221; ever since.<br />
Currently, it appears that the City is trying to do to ACEMS what ACEMS did to ADA-BOI 25 years ago. It was wrong then and it is wrong today.<br />
This is clearly an effort by the City of Boise to try and put ACEMS out of business, because once Boise goes, so will all the other cities in the valley. If the purpose was to return to an era of &#8220;on scene life support and stabilization&#8221; by the BFD and then private transport I could get behind that. (Just as soon as Dave Bieter is no longer mayor)</p>
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