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	Comments on: Boise Taxpayers Pay Bill For Eagle Bus	</title>
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	<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/10/21/boise-taxpayers-pay-bill-for-eagle-bus/</link>
	<description>A different slant on the news.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:52:50 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Daniel L Dunham		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/10/21/boise-taxpayers-pay-bill-for-eagle-bus/#comment-15369</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daniel L Dunham]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3605#comment-15369</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Boise City Council can&#039;t figure out enough ways to spend the tax dollars in Boise?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Boise City Council can&#8217;t figure out enough ways to spend the tax dollars in Boise?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mr. Watcher		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/10/21/boise-taxpayers-pay-bill-for-eagle-bus/#comment-15315</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mr. Watcher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3605#comment-15315</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As far as who should pay, thats a topic worth talking about. Riding the bus to get to BSU and living too far away is a personal problem for those that chose to live and go to school with that kind of distance. If they are living at home to save money on rent, are the rest of the citizens on the hook to cover their transportation? Seemingly, yes we are. 
Some services are outside of what government is all about, this is one of them. Understand, we are not talking about sick people who need rides for medical treatment. There are a number of services to help such people. If people make a willing choice to live a long distance from where they need to go to work or school  the rest of the citizens do not own them a free ride or any kind of ride. 
This economy is going to get far worse and a lot more folks are going to slip through the cracks. What we must do is demand less government and lower taxes. This will allow many to hang on and others to help with giving to charities to help those in need. The idea of government taxing folks out of their homes to help a very few borders mental illness. Mark my word, this economy still has a lot of going down to do and government needs to start moving in that direction because thats the real world we live in.  
We have two bubbles that are going to go pop one after the other. The first one is going to be commercial real estate, which is happing now and picking up some steam. In fact commercial real estate will start sliding very quickly after the flop in Christmas sales. The one to go after that one is the government bond bubble, which is the mother of all bubbles. The ride ahead is going to be one no one is going to get out of unhurt. We need real leadership in government at this time more than ever before and we are being failed. Which this bus issue clearly shines the light of truth on.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as who should pay, thats a topic worth talking about. Riding the bus to get to BSU and living too far away is a personal problem for those that chose to live and go to school with that kind of distance. If they are living at home to save money on rent, are the rest of the citizens on the hook to cover their transportation? Seemingly, yes we are.<br />
Some services are outside of what government is all about, this is one of them. Understand, we are not talking about sick people who need rides for medical treatment. There are a number of services to help such people. If people make a willing choice to live a long distance from where they need to go to work or school  the rest of the citizens do not own them a free ride or any kind of ride.<br />
This economy is going to get far worse and a lot more folks are going to slip through the cracks. What we must do is demand less government and lower taxes. This will allow many to hang on and others to help with giving to charities to help those in need. The idea of government taxing folks out of their homes to help a very few borders mental illness. Mark my word, this economy still has a lot of going down to do and government needs to start moving in that direction because thats the real world we live in.<br />
We have two bubbles that are going to go pop one after the other. The first one is going to be commercial real estate, which is happing now and picking up some steam. In fact commercial real estate will start sliding very quickly after the flop in Christmas sales. The one to go after that one is the government bond bubble, which is the mother of all bubbles. The ride ahead is going to be one no one is going to get out of unhurt. We need real leadership in government at this time more than ever before and we are being failed. Which this bus issue clearly shines the light of truth on.</p>
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		<title>
		By: bikeboy		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/10/21/boise-taxpayers-pay-bill-for-eagle-bus/#comment-15309</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bikeboy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 22:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3605#comment-15309</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dean... apparently you misunderstood the motivation of my comment.  I was NOT &quot;bemoaning&quot; that taxpayers subsidize public transit; in fact, I&#039;m an advocate for public transportation, and use it when I can&#039;t ride the bike for whatever reason.  (Would I vote a .5-cent sales tax increase to help fund it, if we had local-option?  Most likely.)

I was mostly replying to &quot;Easter,&quot; who said &quot;Make the riders pay for the commuter bus!&quot;

I&#039;ll gladly stand by my streetcar comparison... if we had another $2 million per year to kick into ValleyRide, it might become &lt;i&gt;almost&lt;/i&gt; useful to a lot more taxpaying citizens!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dean&#8230; apparently you misunderstood the motivation of my comment.  I was NOT &#8220;bemoaning&#8221; that taxpayers subsidize public transit; in fact, I&#8217;m an advocate for public transportation, and use it when I can&#8217;t ride the bike for whatever reason.  (Would I vote a .5-cent sales tax increase to help fund it, if we had local-option?  Most likely.)</p>
<p>I was mostly replying to &#8220;Easter,&#8221; who said &#8220;Make the riders pay for the commuter bus!&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll gladly stand by my streetcar comparison&#8230; if we had another $2 million per year to kick into ValleyRide, it might become <i>almost</i> useful to a lot more taxpaying citizens!</p>
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		<title>
		By: sam the sham		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/10/21/boise-taxpayers-pay-bill-for-eagle-bus/#comment-15308</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sam the sham]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3605#comment-15308</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is America, we no longer expect the rich to pay their fair share, nor do they expect to pay. They are already sick and tired of paying for public education and can now write off private schools. 
So quite belly aching and get back to work - even if you are not being paid a fair share or even have a job.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is America, we no longer expect the rich to pay their fair share, nor do they expect to pay. They are already sick and tired of paying for public education and can now write off private schools.<br />
So quite belly aching and get back to work &#8211; even if you are not being paid a fair share or even have a job.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dean Gunderson		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/10/21/boise-taxpayers-pay-bill-for-eagle-bus/#comment-15306</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dean Gunderson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 18:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3605#comment-15306</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[On a follow-up. The American Farmland Trust data shows how perilous it is for a community to view itself as a residential-only bedroom community.

If Eagle finances are as fragile as this renegging implies, then perhaps the city needs to consider permitting more commercial and industrial uses within its city limits. Maybe granting all those construction permits for residential develoment within the Boise River flood plain really wasn&#039;t a good idea -- not just because the land was prone to flooding, but also because it was residential.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On a follow-up. The American Farmland Trust data shows how perilous it is for a community to view itself as a residential-only bedroom community.</p>
<p>If Eagle finances are as fragile as this renegging implies, then perhaps the city needs to consider permitting more commercial and industrial uses within its city limits. Maybe granting all those construction permits for residential develoment within the Boise River flood plain really wasn&#8217;t a good idea &#8212; not just because the land was prone to flooding, but also because it was residential.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dean Gunderson		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/10/21/boise-taxpayers-pay-bill-for-eagle-bus/#comment-15302</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dean Gunderson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3605#comment-15302</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Bikeboy,

If one were to adopt the &quot;pay to play&quot; philosophy for public services then every homeowner in Ada County would be caught short -- forced to cough up tens of thousands of dollars to &quot;pay their fair share&quot; for everything from roads, to sewers, to schools, to parks. Transit isn&#039;t a luxury item that you just cut back on when funds are tight, it&#039;s a basic public service.

Truth is, only commerical property and rural ag land would be on the plus side of such a pay-to-play equation (commercial because it pays far more for services than it consumes, and rural ag land because it hardly demands any such services). You don&#039;t have to take my word for it, the American Farmland Trust has performed hundreds of such evaluations across the country (two in Idaho, Cassia and Canyon Counties) that bear this out.

http://www.farmlandinfo.org/documents/27757/COCS_09-2007.pdf

Eagle City Council ought to be ashamed of itself for welching on its fiscal obligation -- regardless of who picked up its tab.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bikeboy,</p>
<p>If one were to adopt the &#8220;pay to play&#8221; philosophy for public services then every homeowner in Ada County would be caught short &#8212; forced to cough up tens of thousands of dollars to &#8220;pay their fair share&#8221; for everything from roads, to sewers, to schools, to parks. Transit isn&#8217;t a luxury item that you just cut back on when funds are tight, it&#8217;s a basic public service.</p>
<p>Truth is, only commerical property and rural ag land would be on the plus side of such a pay-to-play equation (commercial because it pays far more for services than it consumes, and rural ag land because it hardly demands any such services). You don&#8217;t have to take my word for it, the American Farmland Trust has performed hundreds of such evaluations across the country (two in Idaho, Cassia and Canyon Counties) that bear this out.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.farmlandinfo.org/documents/27757/COCS_09-2007.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.farmlandinfo.org/documents/27757/COCS_09-2007.pdf</a></p>
<p>Eagle City Council ought to be ashamed of itself for welching on its fiscal obligation &#8212; regardless of who picked up its tab.</p>
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		<title>
		By: bikeboy		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/10/21/boise-taxpayers-pay-bill-for-eagle-bus/#comment-15300</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bikeboy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3605#comment-15300</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;REALITY:&lt;/b&gt; Mass transit is subsidized by non-riding taxpayers.  Show me a system anywhere in the world where that is not true.  (Theoretically, it benefits non-riders by easing congestion, mitigating pollution, facilitating movement of their employees, customers, etc.)

The question is... how much, and which taxpayers? If I were on the Eagle City Council, I&#039;d be publicizing the fact that I saved Eagle taxpayers some $$ by shifting the burden to OTHER taxpayers.

&lt;b&gt;PERSPECTIVE:&lt;/b&gt;  Suppose it costs $50K/year to run the Highway 44 bus.  And suppose the Streetcar costs $60 million to build, and $2 million/year to operate.  (The proponents&#039; numbers.)  You could run 2 Highway 44 buses per hour for 20 hours / day, for the same amount as the Streetcar operation.  And for the cost of installing the Streetcar, you could run the Highway 44 bus for the next 1200 years!  ($50K/year is CHUMP CHANGE!)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>REALITY:</b> Mass transit is subsidized by non-riding taxpayers.  Show me a system anywhere in the world where that is not true.  (Theoretically, it benefits non-riders by easing congestion, mitigating pollution, facilitating movement of their employees, customers, etc.)</p>
<p>The question is&#8230; how much, and which taxpayers? If I were on the Eagle City Council, I&#8217;d be publicizing the fact that I saved Eagle taxpayers some $$ by shifting the burden to OTHER taxpayers.</p>
<p><b>PERSPECTIVE:</b>  Suppose it costs $50K/year to run the Highway 44 bus.  And suppose the Streetcar costs $60 million to build, and $2 million/year to operate.  (The proponents&#8217; numbers.)  You could run 2 Highway 44 buses per hour for 20 hours / day, for the same amount as the Streetcar operation.  And for the cost of installing the Streetcar, you could run the Highway 44 bus for the next 1200 years!  ($50K/year is CHUMP CHANGE!)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Easter		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/10/21/boise-taxpayers-pay-bill-for-eagle-bus/#comment-15291</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Easter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3605#comment-15291</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Whoa! Hold on! 

Why is anyone pointing a finger at Eagle or Boise? 

What is wrong with Valley Transit charging those 14 people for their commute?  

$50,000 divided by 14 people is 3,571 per year and $297/month.  

Any idiot who lives in Eagle or beyond can expect to pay way more than $300/mo to COMMUTE to Boise. 

MAKE THE RIDERS PAY FOR THE COMMUTER BUS!!

Obviously Valley Transit, and Commuterride (ACHD) are mismanaged by not requiring a fair fare for the riders. Commuterride is a money loser and the bus is too- who wants to pay for a loser?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoa! Hold on! </p>
<p>Why is anyone pointing a finger at Eagle or Boise? </p>
<p>What is wrong with Valley Transit charging those 14 people for their commute?  </p>
<p>$50,000 divided by 14 people is 3,571 per year and $297/month.  </p>
<p>Any idiot who lives in Eagle or beyond can expect to pay way more than $300/mo to COMMUTE to Boise. </p>
<p>MAKE THE RIDERS PAY FOR THE COMMUTER BUS!!</p>
<p>Obviously Valley Transit, and Commuterride (ACHD) are mismanaged by not requiring a fair fare for the riders. Commuterride is a money loser and the bus is too- who wants to pay for a loser?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Werner		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/10/21/boise-taxpayers-pay-bill-for-eagle-bus/#comment-15289</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Werner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3605#comment-15289</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t blame the City of Eagle one bit.  If I&#039;m sitting at a city meeting and someone says &#039;Hey I know we&#039;re broke in all, but how about we all pitch in $15 thousand dollars so 14 people can have a bus ride to Boise for the rest of the year.&quot;  You better believe I&#039;m voting no if given the choice.  

The reality is that our bus system is a black hole used to consume taxpayer money.  The entire valley is sprawling and not designed for any mass transit system.  Poor planning and design has led us to this conundrum.  Wasting money on inefficiently run bus systems will not solve the realities of geography, population sprawl, and the fact that people in general don&#039;t like riding a bus.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t blame the City of Eagle one bit.  If I&#8217;m sitting at a city meeting and someone says &#8216;Hey I know we&#8217;re broke in all, but how about we all pitch in $15 thousand dollars so 14 people can have a bus ride to Boise for the rest of the year.&#8221;  You better believe I&#8217;m voting no if given the choice.  </p>
<p>The reality is that our bus system is a black hole used to consume taxpayer money.  The entire valley is sprawling and not designed for any mass transit system.  Poor planning and design has led us to this conundrum.  Wasting money on inefficiently run bus systems will not solve the realities of geography, population sprawl, and the fact that people in general don&#8217;t like riding a bus.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hwy 44		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2009/10/21/boise-taxpayers-pay-bill-for-eagle-bus/#comment-15288</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hwy 44]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=3605#comment-15288</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Contrary to Gunderson&#039;s statement, Eagle does not have trouble providing municipal service.  

Eagle has trouble taking responsibility for municipal services.  And, they will keep doing it as long as fools like Boise and BSU keep bailing them out.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Contrary to Gunderson&#8217;s statement, Eagle does not have trouble providing municipal service.  </p>
<p>Eagle has trouble taking responsibility for municipal services.  And, they will keep doing it as long as fools like Boise and BSU keep bailing them out.</p>
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