Comments on: City Allows “Other Side” Into Open House

By: John Kno

John Kno — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:46:48 +0000

Does anyone else find it “at least” interesting that the official Boise Streetcar website (www.boisestreetcar.org) domain was acquired by the city more than a year ago in October of 2008? Check out the website domain creation date from Who IS:

Domain ID:D154467179-LROR
Domain Name:BOISESTREETCAR.ORG
Created On:14-Oct-2008 19:52:43

Team Dave has been planning to spring this on the public for awhile now.

By: Property Owner

Property Owner — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 03:18:34 +0000

I was called and told there was a meeting on Dec 9 but I cannot find an announcement anywhere officially. Does anyone know about this meeting for property owners on the proposed route?

By: ADR

ADR — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 20:18:52 +0000

Here is some interesting testimony regarding the expansion of the Portland streetcar. If you are wondering why everyone, including many of the developers downtown, would prefer an improved bus system over a streetcar, this summary from the testimony nails it:

“The Portland Streetcar is 73 times more expensive to build per-mile than the Rapid Bus alternative; in what ways is it 73 times better? In fact, it is not superior by even a single metric. The Rapid Bus system is cheaper, more flexible, twice as fast, arrives more often, is easier to implement, and its users are willing to pay 23 times more for service.
Portland is a city whose leaders pride themselves on promoting “sustainability,” yet the streetcar requires subsidies for 100% of capital costs and 98% of operating costs. Exponential debt is not a sustainable development concept.”

A link to the testimony can be found here:

http://noboisestreetcar.blogspot.com/2009/12/new-testimony-regarding-portland.html

By: idahokid

idahokid — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 19:25:43 +0000

In theory a trolley or streetcar (mass transit) sounds like a good idea. When in Portland I like to stay at the downtown hotels and enjoy taking the Redline into town for less than the cost of an espresso. Looking over Seattle’s new mass transit this past week I can see the benefits of that also.
What I cannot see in the Boise plan is the benefit of an amusement ride that goes around and around a short circuit in downtown. Treasure Valley is missing the additional million of people needed to make a decent sized system pay for itself, maybe??

By: Kappa TA

Kappa TA — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 18:32:03 +0000

Thanks for the flyer info and additional facts regardings LIDS. If only we could charge $90,000 for our enlightened and educated thoughts! We could throw one COOL GUARDIAN YULE PARTY!

By: Yeahbut

Yeahbut — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 13:55:05 +0000

I’m in SLC this weekend and rode TRAX several times to get around the downtown area. It’s convenient, quiet and “cool”. If we could snap our fingers and have such a system in Boise, I’d be for it. The current plan to put a streetcar in Boise is fraught with problems well documented by previous commenters. I believe that use of the LID will force out the small, local businesses that make the current downtown fun and interesting to visit. With them gone we’ll have a downtown populated by major brands charging more for goods in order to sell them within the “Streetcar Impact Zone (Crater?)”. All the more reason to shop online instead. One thing I did like about the presentation last week was that the busses will use a separate transit mall rather than parking right in the heart of downtown. But that plan is in place independent of the streetcar vision. I haven’t seen a compelling reason to take on debt to build the streetcar, and “Cool Factor” falls way short of a reason to do it.

By: Kappa TA

Kappa TA — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 06:33:16 +0000

This streetcar issue has more plots and turns and twists than a bad soap opera. Now we have the city and CCDC saying they will front $5 million each in nebulous funds for the project, leaving only $10 million for the taypayers to absorb? Given that the Statesman has reported that cities are likely to receive only $25 million not $40 million in federal grant funds for streetcar projects, that leaves $35 million for cities to pick up for a $60 million project. Deducting $10 million from CCDC and the city, still leaves, guess what, $25 million! Welcome to “As the Streetcar Turns.”

Cyclops, it is the duty of public relations people to be accommodating and to seek favorable press and public opinion. You had every right to be included at the OPEN house. Don’t take it personally. Remain skeptical and vigilant in presenting your ideas at public forums.

By: Why Not Try This?

Why Not Try This? — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 04:48:01 +0000

Why don’t we just get some trolleys on wheels and try this route for about six months and see what happens…it either works in concept or it does not. If if does not then the project is dead and we have not spent millions or created a new tax base that no one can afford. Why not try this first?

By: Mary

Mary — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 04:44:49 +0000

I went to the open house and I listened to the Mayor on the radio – – in both situtations I found this project to be nothing more than a “pet project”. If the city proceeds with this project it will clearly show that they have no interest in representing the majority of the citizens in Boise.

By: ADR

ADR — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 21:11:02 +0000

I hope that more people who attended the ‘open’ house were able to see how completely disingenuous the city is being regarding the streetcar project.

Also, now that more of the truth is coming out, it should be obvious that the city and CCDC is just on a money grab at the long-term expense of the Boise taxpayer. The LID proposal has become yet another very fishy aspect of this project.

The city and CCDC started out a long time ago saying that the LID would be used to raise between $15 and $25 million. Now they are saying it is more like $10 million because the city and CCDC have agreed to kick in $5 million apiece.

This begs the question – where is the city getting the $5 million? They do not HAVE $5 million sitting around for this. According to their own numbers, they are running a $9+ million budget deficit along with mounting departmental shortfalls, including parks, arts programs, health care, and police.

Not only that, the LID will do exactly what I predicted months ago – hurt downtown businesses and property owners. Clay Carly, the owner of the Pioneer Building, has already said he will raise the lease rates on his tenants. The El Korah Shrine, which would derive NO benefit from a streetcar, will get money taken away from their non-profit programs. The largest property owners are mostly not streetcar destinations because they all have their own parking facilities, but will pay the most for the LID – St. Luke’s share alone will be $1.4 million.

Every dollar that is spent on this foolish project is a dollar that will be taken away from something else. The VAST majority of people here would rather see the bus system improved before any other transit system is discussed. If Bieter wanted to see how Salt Lake City did it, he needs to understand that they had an excellent bus system in place over 40 years ago, and that the TRAX system is light rail, not a streetcar (there is a difference).

Regardless of what the grant money can or can’t be used for, the truth is that a streetcar in downtown Boise is completely unnecessary and , if built, will be a logistical nightmare. The proposed route is completely unsuited on every level for a streetcar and the whole project should be scrapped; we would be money ahead to do nothing.

There is a lot more information at http://noboisestreetcar.blogspot.com – the side of the story the city ISN’T talking about.