Comments on: Cyclists Call For Enforcement of New Law

By: Zippo

Zippo — Sun, 17 Jan 2010 23:05:28 +0000

db, I’m not pro-motorist. I’m pro-life. Riding a bike in traffic is more dangerous, as fact does show… probably even in the ideal places you mention, and for sure here. The biker’s life is damaged or ended as is the life of the driver involved… All you who ride bikes most often drive too… you too could be the unfortunate driver as well as biker. Bikes are hard to see, maybe even beyond the limits of the human brain to process. Possibly a great defense for someone with enough money for such a trial. I wish not one more ever happened but we all know it will. I think the biker not wearing BRIGHT colors is partially at fault… just like a hunter not wearing orange. I think the limits of the human mind to perceive the hazards needs to be explored and the roads and rules amended to meet the limitations.

By: idaholc

idaholc — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 17:46:45 +0000

Route choices:

When I ride from the east end to Eagle I use North End streets as opposed to Hill Rd. I have greater vision, feel much safer and it is a much more interesting route. Of course I am not a speed rider and am willing to slow down at intersections and I enjoy seeing my city.

By: db

db — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 22:42:53 +0000

Anyone else see a problem with experience vs. perception here? Most of the pro-motorist folks aren’t biking at all, while most of the pro-bike folks ALSO drive cars. Seems to really color some of the “facts” put forth…

Case 1: Bikes and cars don’t mix well. Sorry, but if that’s your “common sense and common knowledge” at work, you need to take a trip outside the U.S. In Europe, Asia, Latin America, and Africa, autos and bikes DO work together in even the most crowded conditions. The U.S., the U.K., Canada, and Australia are the sad exceptions. The evidence is there — you just have to actually look for it.

Case 2: However, very few poeple [sic] WALK on Harrison during commute hours, so bikes should use the sidewalk… Even better. So we need to be more visible, but we should buffer ourselves from traffic more? Go ahead and ride down a Harrison sidewalk at rush hour. If you can still type afterward, let us know how many close calls you had because motorists did not see you until the last second. Almost anyone who regularly rides will tell you that being on the street is safer.

Are there better route choices than Harrison? Sure, absolutely. But just like motorists, some cyclists make bad route choices.

By: cyclops

cyclops — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 21:56:00 +0000

Good to hear from you Kip. I hope all is well with your change. Thanks for the input. Glad to see you are still in touch.

By: Zippo

Zippo — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 17:37:38 +0000

I think the three foot rule is going to be used my a few on the bikes to block traffic. Is there also a rule that says if going below the speed limit you should make way? If not there sure should be.

By: sam the sham

sam the sham — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 06:27:33 +0000

As long as we choose to embrace an us vs them attitude not much will change.
It appears that we lack a feeling of community anymore. I used to love biking around this town. My kids and I felt safe riding down Capital Blvd. Not anymore.
Where is the sense of kindness? Did Boise just get too big, is that the situation? Honestly, I am really wondering what happened when kids can’t even ride their bikes to school anymore without fear of being run down just because they are on bikes – not being driven in a car.
Most of Kootenai has no sidewalk, no place for kids to walk to school. And no safe place to ride (ever pass a parked car to have a door suddenly open?)

By: serendipity

serendipity — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 03:03:10 +0000

Someone said,
“Defensive riding requires a rear view mirror and choice of routes that minimize vehicle conflicts.”
How right he or she is. Harrison Blvd. should not be chosen as a main bike route. In fact, biking on Harrison Blvd. should be banned during commute hours because maintaining a three foot buffer between car and bike, while there are lots of cars parked on the street by the curb, is simply IMPOSSIBLE!!
However, very few poeple WALK on Harrison during commute hours, so bikes should use the sidewalk, stopping for the rare walker when encountered, IF they MUST drive on Harrison.
Instead, choose 18th street when going downtown. 18th St. is wider than most other north end streets. You can see what’s coming. It’s safer both for bikes and for cars.

By: fortboise

fortboise — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:30:34 +0000

3 feet is a lovely, generous buffer. I think of it on those rare occasions when I risk N. Cole and get off the sidewalk (filled as it is with utility poles, overgrown shrubbery and trash cans).

I’ve got a road bike with 16″ wide handlebars and a hybrid with 25″ bars, add 6″ or so for the best you can do tracking a straight line (assuming you’re not staying off of badly sloped, partially broken pavement near the curb, or debris, which you always are), and 3 feet makes… close to SIX FEET, the width of my outstretched arms.

Great idea, but I’m not going to try holding my breath while I wait for observance, let alone enforcement. Strike up the chorus of “what am I supposed to do, slow down and WAIT?” What a nightmare that would be, huh?

Some drivers are kind enough to change lanes when they’re utterly unobstructed. Some can’t be bothered to move over even HALF a lane even if there are no other cars on the road.

Just inside the stripe of the bike lane often IS “as close to the right as practicable” Rod.

As clear as your memory is of being irritated by cyclists, give it a moment’s thought and tell us what the ratio of your delay-from and annoyance-by for cars::cyclists.

50 to 1?

@Picayune: there’s more caught on video (and/or cell phone cameras) all the time. Don’t count out that kind of evidence so easily.

This has got me to thinking about proximity sensors and data logging too, maybe there are engineering solutions we can come up with. 🙂

By: kip wills

kip wills — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:17:33 +0000

I DO aplaud the councils efforts to try something even if it will be unenforcable and thrown out by the courts. Here as I see it is the main reason this is not workable. Several years ago when I was an officer there I helped craft language for the statewide “move over” bill requiring cars to vacate the lane next to emergency vehicles. Now, like the judges told us then, “what if the car can’t,due to traffic, weather, lane construction, etc move over? We would have to rule against the police on enforcement”. The same thing will happen here, first, how in the world can the officer prove beyond a reasonable doubt it was less than 3 feet? Heck many judges rule against officers now AFTER someone rearends someone in an accident that they were NOT following too close, so kinda hard to prove. Second, I agree with many posters here, stepped up enforcement of current laws is always preferable to even more worthless legislation even if done for a worthy cause.

Now with that said, I DO think that councils actions help tremendously with the education portion of the equation. For that I give them kudos. Too bad that once again a traffic based problem did not involve traffic officers, traffic engineers or transportation planners but rather bicycle advocates, bicycle officers and bicycle haters. Oh well, after 20 years as a traffic officer in the valley what did I expect? Good try by all, now buckle down and do the hard thing. Find the money through pedestrian/cycle grants for engineering changes to fix the problem. For a problem DOES exist and a real solution is needed.

As for my DC neighbor, I work down at DOT headquarters in the District and the bike engineering is great, but I live outside Manassas and in Virginia I think they just paved a few cow trails!! No shoulder let alone bike lanes or paths. Fortunately we have a half mile paved driveway at our place for my kids to bike on because they will NEVER be allowed out on the road here! Be courteous and patient cyclists and motorists and best wishes in finding a permanent and workable solution.

PS Bikeboy…good article and good testimony. Something is better than nothing and at least some attention is being paid to the problem. Keep up the good work.

By: The Boise Picayune

The Boise Picayune — Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:47:47 +0000

RE: 3 Foot Rule

Unfortunately, unless it’s caught on video or the motorist is stupid enough to admit it, even a 4th Rate Lawyer from a 3rd World Law School oughta be able to kill that charge.

Even Eye Witnesses – who, as any Prosecutor or Defense Attorney will tell you are notoriously unreliable – won’t change that dynamic.

It’s window dressing for the general public, and a distraction from genuine – albeit costly – solutions

But hey… “It’s betta than nuthin!”