<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	
	>
<channel>
	<title>
	Comments on: Nailing Team Dave On Hammer Flats Purchase	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://boiseguardian.com/2010/05/22/nailing-team-dave-on-hammer-flats-purchase/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2010/05/22/nailing-team-dave-on-hammer-flats-purchase/</link>
	<description>A different slant on the news.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 17:01:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>
	hourly	</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>
	1	</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4</generator>
	<item>
		<title>
		By: John Kangas		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2010/05/22/nailing-team-dave-on-hammer-flats-purchase/#comment-18675</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Kangas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 17:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=4782#comment-18675</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Law and Access:

Our organization has been prepared to engage in a full planning process which integrates all interests. We believe we can prove our long term compatibility with the Open Space Plan and the Boise voters Open Space Levy. Perhaps, this is why the City is working with Fish and Game behind closed doors and not allowing public exchange. 

In any long term land management plan, access is a key issue. The Crow gliding area is accessed from Highland Valley Road on the very west side. If the city was to open up access to Hammer Flats, the Crow Gliding Area would be a logical place for people to park and begin their hiking, riding, gliding adventures. Idaho Fish and Game already has access locked up on all other sides. The Crow Gliding Area is the final key to a total lock out of other compatible uses.

Legalities represent another problem if Boise wishes to transfers ownership of Hammer Flats to Fish and Game or a third party in the future.  Boise City needs to honor both the Serial Levy and the Foothills Management Plan. Both documents integrate multiple uses including public recreation into the big picture. Of the two, the Serial Levy probably holds more binding clout. Idaho fish and Game on the other hand, is not bound by the Serial Levy if they or a friendly third party gain ownership. Pending transfer, one could see that it would be in Fish and Game’s best interest to not set precedent of other compatible land uses or to even engage in public meetings or discourse which requires records.  If they ultimately gain ownership “their” interpretation of the 7 agency Foothills Management Plan would be their only guide. 

Drop me a line at j_kangas@msn.com and I will send you a copy of our open letter to the Mayor.  Included in the stream of correspondence with the Mayor is an aerial photo which shows the logical access points next to the Gliding Area.

John Kangas,]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Law and Access:</p>
<p>Our organization has been prepared to engage in a full planning process which integrates all interests. We believe we can prove our long term compatibility with the Open Space Plan and the Boise voters Open Space Levy. Perhaps, this is why the City is working with Fish and Game behind closed doors and not allowing public exchange. </p>
<p>In any long term land management plan, access is a key issue. The Crow gliding area is accessed from Highland Valley Road on the very west side. If the city was to open up access to Hammer Flats, the Crow Gliding Area would be a logical place for people to park and begin their hiking, riding, gliding adventures. Idaho Fish and Game already has access locked up on all other sides. The Crow Gliding Area is the final key to a total lock out of other compatible uses.</p>
<p>Legalities represent another problem if Boise wishes to transfers ownership of Hammer Flats to Fish and Game or a third party in the future.  Boise City needs to honor both the Serial Levy and the Foothills Management Plan. Both documents integrate multiple uses including public recreation into the big picture. Of the two, the Serial Levy probably holds more binding clout. Idaho fish and Game on the other hand, is not bound by the Serial Levy if they or a friendly third party gain ownership. Pending transfer, one could see that it would be in Fish and Game’s best interest to not set precedent of other compatible land uses or to even engage in public meetings or discourse which requires records.  If they ultimately gain ownership “their” interpretation of the 7 agency Foothills Management Plan would be their only guide. </p>
<p>Drop me a line at <a href="mailto:j_kangas@msn.com">j_kangas@msn.com</a> and I will send you a copy of our open letter to the Mayor.  Included in the stream of correspondence with the Mayor is an aerial photo which shows the logical access points next to the Gliding Area.</p>
<p>John Kangas,</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Clancy		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2010/05/22/nailing-team-dave-on-hammer-flats-purchase/#comment-18664</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Clancy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 21:51:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=4782#comment-18664</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think the Paragliders need some patience.  I am sure some compromise will happen.  In the the mean time, stirring the pot will only cause bad will.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the Paragliders need some patience.  I am sure some compromise will happen.  In the the mean time, stirring the pot will only cause bad will.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Borzoi		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2010/05/22/nailing-team-dave-on-hammer-flats-purchase/#comment-18663</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Borzoi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 21:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=4782#comment-18663</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dean,  Maybe POW is referring to the borzoi that roam on Hammer Flat.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dean,  Maybe POW is referring to the borzoi that roam on Hammer Flat.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: John Barsness		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2010/05/22/nailing-team-dave-on-hammer-flats-purchase/#comment-18661</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Barsness]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 20:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=4782#comment-18661</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Cutting to the chase, it is consistent with the letter, and intent, of the Foothills Policy Plan for Boise City to use Foothills Levy money to buy land for the purpose of protecting wildlife, and not use the land for recreation.&quot;

Tony, I wish I&#039;d have realized that when I voted for that levy many years ago. As a native Idahoan and long time &quot;recreationist&quot;, this is disturbing.  I am all for helping out the mule deer.  I have hunted them, respectfully and legally, for almost 40 years.  Likewise, I took my first hang glider flight at the Crow gliding area in 1978. I have been flying there since; quietly and peacefully.  We hike up the hill, quietly launch, quietly fly, and quietly leave.  I have flown over deer who were bedded in the ravine and didn&#039;t spook them; we just enjoyed the peace and quiet beauty of the place together.

This &quot;lock-em-out&quot; mentality was NOT what I voted for when I voted to spend MY MONEY to purchase acreage in the foothills.  It was so the land would not be developed and turned into condos, and people locked out.  In hindsight, I wish Hammer Flats WOULD have been developed.  We talked to the developer, who was willing to let us continue to fly and even offered to make a park in the area of the hill, so we&#039;d have a nice smooth place to land, and kids could come out and watch and maybe do a little hiking instead of sitting at a computer playing video games all day.  Other people could hike the hill and enjoy the gliders.  

Generally speaking, I don&#039;t have much good to say about California, but as a case in point, look at San Diego; they recognized the beauty of silent flight and have a wonderful glider park at Torrey Pines.  Many people go out there to sit and enjoy the day and watch the gliders fly, not to mention the many participants of the sport who go there frequently.

Too bad Boise&#039;s elected officials can&#039;t get a clue.  Our use is quiet, clean, doesn&#039;t make noise, doesn&#039;t tear up the landscape, doesn&#039;t bother the deer, and was appreciated for many years by the locals in the area who&#039;d watch us fly.

Well, it&#039;s no surprise.  All good things...  sigh.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Cutting to the chase, it is consistent with the letter, and intent, of the Foothills Policy Plan for Boise City to use Foothills Levy money to buy land for the purpose of protecting wildlife, and not use the land for recreation.&#8221;</p>
<p>Tony, I wish I&#8217;d have realized that when I voted for that levy many years ago. As a native Idahoan and long time &#8220;recreationist&#8221;, this is disturbing.  I am all for helping out the mule deer.  I have hunted them, respectfully and legally, for almost 40 years.  Likewise, I took my first hang glider flight at the Crow gliding area in 1978. I have been flying there since; quietly and peacefully.  We hike up the hill, quietly launch, quietly fly, and quietly leave.  I have flown over deer who were bedded in the ravine and didn&#8217;t spook them; we just enjoyed the peace and quiet beauty of the place together.</p>
<p>This &#8220;lock-em-out&#8221; mentality was NOT what I voted for when I voted to spend MY MONEY to purchase acreage in the foothills.  It was so the land would not be developed and turned into condos, and people locked out.  In hindsight, I wish Hammer Flats WOULD have been developed.  We talked to the developer, who was willing to let us continue to fly and even offered to make a park in the area of the hill, so we&#8217;d have a nice smooth place to land, and kids could come out and watch and maybe do a little hiking instead of sitting at a computer playing video games all day.  Other people could hike the hill and enjoy the gliders.  </p>
<p>Generally speaking, I don&#8217;t have much good to say about California, but as a case in point, look at San Diego; they recognized the beauty of silent flight and have a wonderful glider park at Torrey Pines.  Many people go out there to sit and enjoy the day and watch the gliders fly, not to mention the many participants of the sport who go there frequently.</p>
<p>Too bad Boise&#8217;s elected officials can&#8217;t get a clue.  Our use is quiet, clean, doesn&#8217;t make noise, doesn&#8217;t tear up the landscape, doesn&#8217;t bother the deer, and was appreciated for many years by the locals in the area who&#8217;d watch us fly.</p>
<p>Well, it&#8217;s no surprise.  All good things&#8230;  sigh.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Dean Gunderson		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2010/05/22/nailing-team-dave-on-hammer-flats-purchase/#comment-18657</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dean Gunderson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 17:57:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=4782#comment-18657</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[P.O.W.,

Something you don&#039;t like about the Peregrine Fund or Birds of Prey?

Spend a little time up on Hammer Flats near the cliff edge -- you&#039;ll find plenty of deer carcass remains from predation (and remains along the bottom of the cliffs). Whether this comes from coyotes that culled out sick animals or from some of the feral dogs that roam the hillside seems pretty irrelevant. Most of the mule deer herd doesn&#039;t migrate through Hammer Flats (because of the cliffs) -- it goes through the lowlands to the west so they have something to eat along the way and can access the Boise River.

But Boise City has already approved that tract of land for development (Harris Ranch). Perhaps as that development progresses, more of the mule deer population will be driven to Hammer Flats -- there just won&#039;t be any access to water from there.

This would make it even more important to have a managing entity with the resources to address this problem -- which (unless there&#039;s a major restructuring of state resources) isn&#039;t going to be the IDFG.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.O.W.,</p>
<p>Something you don&#8217;t like about the Peregrine Fund or Birds of Prey?</p>
<p>Spend a little time up on Hammer Flats near the cliff edge &#8212; you&#8217;ll find plenty of deer carcass remains from predation (and remains along the bottom of the cliffs). Whether this comes from coyotes that culled out sick animals or from some of the feral dogs that roam the hillside seems pretty irrelevant. Most of the mule deer herd doesn&#8217;t migrate through Hammer Flats (because of the cliffs) &#8212; it goes through the lowlands to the west so they have something to eat along the way and can access the Boise River.</p>
<p>But Boise City has already approved that tract of land for development (Harris Ranch). Perhaps as that development progresses, more of the mule deer population will be driven to Hammer Flats &#8212; there just won&#8217;t be any access to water from there.</p>
<p>This would make it even more important to have a managing entity with the resources to address this problem &#8212; which (unless there&#8217;s a major restructuring of state resources) isn&#8217;t going to be the IDFG.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Zippo		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2010/05/22/nailing-team-dave-on-hammer-flats-purchase/#comment-18644</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zippo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 03:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=4782#comment-18644</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Something smells funny]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something smells funny</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Piece of Work		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2010/05/22/nailing-team-dave-on-hammer-flats-purchase/#comment-18639</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Piece of Work]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 02:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=4782#comment-18639</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I didn&#039;t think this thread could get any loonier, but I forgot Gunderson.  

Tell us Dean, what predator is big, strong, and fast enough to count deer as its prey, has managed to stay alive and remain undetected in the canyon lo these many years, and is too stupid to follow the deer tracks around the ends of the cliffs to the booty that lies above?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t think this thread could get any loonier, but I forgot Gunderson.  </p>
<p>Tell us Dean, what predator is big, strong, and fast enough to count deer as its prey, has managed to stay alive and remain undetected in the canyon lo these many years, and is too stupid to follow the deer tracks around the ends of the cliffs to the booty that lies above?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Dean Gunderson		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2010/05/22/nailing-team-dave-on-hammer-flats-purchase/#comment-18628</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dean Gunderson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 May 2010 18:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=4782#comment-18628</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Portions of Hammer Flats serve as a leeward, south-facing wintering ground for a small portion of the mule deer population that migrate down from the IDFG controlled lands, and some of the human-introduced elk from the same area. 

It also offers some predator protection since it abuts the basalt cliffs to the south. Unfortunately, there&#039;s no water source or food vegetation for these wintering animals.

Currently, it&#039;s the cliffs that offer the most heavily-used recreational opportunity -- and their climbing use during nesting season is already restricted via agreement with some NGO&#039;s. Unfortunately, IDFG is not a wildlife management organization -- it&#039;s a state agency that regulates the issuance of hunting &#038; fishing permits for state-regulated game. Birds aren&#039;t very high on that list, and habitat preservation that may benefit a full ecology (but which offers little in return for hunted game) is not habitat that the IDFG has much resources to devote.

If Boise City wants to see the Flats used as a wildlife preserve, it would do better to partner with the Peregrine Fund, Birds of Prey, or the Elk Foundation than a resource-depleted state agency like the IDFG.

The IDFG could still be involved as a management partner for the land -- primarily to lend legitimacy to grant applications to the Feds. But the agency doesn&#039;t offer much to the public, except a sparse Game Warden presence.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Portions of Hammer Flats serve as a leeward, south-facing wintering ground for a small portion of the mule deer population that migrate down from the IDFG controlled lands, and some of the human-introduced elk from the same area. </p>
<p>It also offers some predator protection since it abuts the basalt cliffs to the south. Unfortunately, there&#8217;s no water source or food vegetation for these wintering animals.</p>
<p>Currently, it&#8217;s the cliffs that offer the most heavily-used recreational opportunity &#8212; and their climbing use during nesting season is already restricted via agreement with some NGO&#8217;s. Unfortunately, IDFG is not a wildlife management organization &#8212; it&#8217;s a state agency that regulates the issuance of hunting &amp; fishing permits for state-regulated game. Birds aren&#8217;t very high on that list, and habitat preservation that may benefit a full ecology (but which offers little in return for hunted game) is not habitat that the IDFG has much resources to devote.</p>
<p>If Boise City wants to see the Flats used as a wildlife preserve, it would do better to partner with the Peregrine Fund, Birds of Prey, or the Elk Foundation than a resource-depleted state agency like the IDFG.</p>
<p>The IDFG could still be involved as a management partner for the land &#8212; primarily to lend legitimacy to grant applications to the Feds. But the agency doesn&#8217;t offer much to the public, except a sparse Game Warden presence.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Robert		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2010/05/22/nailing-team-dave-on-hammer-flats-purchase/#comment-18625</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 May 2010 12:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=4782#comment-18625</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If they bought it for the public?
Then open it up to the public!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they bought it for the public?<br />
Then open it up to the public!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Piece of Work		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2010/05/22/nailing-team-dave-on-hammer-flats-purchase/#comment-18618</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Piece of Work]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 May 2010 01:06:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=4782#comment-18618</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wow, what a piece of work this Kangas guy is.  Having saved the deer from death by subdivision, he thinks it&#039;s his right to terrorize them with his hang gliders.  He should be banned, from the planet.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, what a piece of work this Kangas guy is.  Having saved the deer from death by subdivision, he thinks it&#8217;s his right to terrorize them with his hang gliders.  He should be banned, from the planet.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
	</channel>
</rss>
