A lot of people who built the roads you drive on, built the house you live in, educated your children, treat you in a hospital, fight your wars, unplug your sewer, keep the internet going, don’t own realestate. Think about it when you order some food at a restaurant.

If only one variable were enough, then I wouldn’t be able to vote (nor 100M other people) since I have a student loan that was subsidized by the Fed gov’t and at one time an SBA subsidized small business loan. However, despite those government programs I benefited from, my businesses pay a lot of taxes, my wages pay a lot of taxes, so I believe if you subtract what the government has given me in “cash-incentives” the cash I put back to the government through working is greater, hence I believe I am a net contributor.

If the farmer or rancher is not a net contributor, then they are no better than the bum who can work, but chooses not too and has been on food stamps for several years.

Despite what some posters might characterize me as a cold hearted elitist, I volunteer for a faith based employment agency that helps people with job searches. I help them fill out applications, build a resume and do mock interviews. Some are there because they really want a job and want to be productive. Many come there because their church or NGO or government will give them more free benefits if they document an effort to get a job, but they really do not want a job. I get huge satisfaction helping people find jobs and careers and an equal amount of anger at those who are able but do not try.

I concede it is controversial, my of many opinions and hard to distinguish between those who are contributors, those who need help now but will be future contributors, and those who do not want to be a contributor.

While bikeboy did not opine, he puts forth the question, should those riding the train have the same influence as those puling the train?

I believe as a society those who are pulling the train have an ethical responsibility to help those just riding the train, but I do not think the riders should have an equal voice if they are not helping to pull the train or improving/preparing themselves to be in a position to help pull in the future.

Good question about why a retired senior citizen should pay for education and schools. Here’s a better one: why should my children and I pay for Social Security *and* Medicare when we don’t get any benefit from it?

Here’s why: because I truly believe we’re all in this together. The wages I make were definitely increased thanks to the education you helped provide–and I thank you for that. In your retirement, hopefully the extra amount I’m paying into Social Security and Medicare thanks to those higher wages is making your life better.

I’m so tired of selfish people. No one seems to be interested in the betterment of society as a whole anymore. It’s all about ME!

I shudder to think what future historians will write about our era…

EDITOR NOTE–Very nicely stated! Average SS recipient (including the GUARDIAN editor) gets back everything they put in within a few short years.

When more people are riding the gravy train, than are pulling the gravy train, we’ve got a serious situation. It becomes much more likely to get bogged down.

Should the riders have the same influence as the pullers? Tough question. (And one that won’t be resolved by the Boise Guardian Brain Trust, I’m afraid.)

“I’m bikeboy, and I approve this message.”

How “contributor” is defined is certainly a debate in itself.

Social assitance programs are meant to be a bridge to self-sufficiency. Those who are mentally and physcialy able to work, but choose a life of perpetual social assistance instead I think have forfieted their right particpate in how our society is run and funded. That right, in my opinion, is earned by being a contributor.

Determined—-Yes Obamaphone is a 1985 program, in 2008 when Obama was elected about $700M federal dollars were funding the program. Under Obama the program has essentially doubled it now costs us $1.6B. Of the 12.5M particpants in the program, 3.5M are Tracfone subscribers, a company owned by the richest man in the world, (Carlos Slim and Family $69B)and a huge Obama fund raiser and donor. I think most national policitians (R or D) are dirty and when elected (R or D) they owe favors to the ultra-wealthy who bank-rolled their campaign.