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	<title>
	Comments on: Bikes vs Car Lanes Remains Undecided	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://boiseguardian.com/2014/05/22/bikes-vs-car-issue-remains-undecided/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2014/05/22/bikes-vs-car-issue-remains-undecided/</link>
	<description>A different slant on the news.</description>
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		<title>
		By: Clancy		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2014/05/22/bikes-vs-car-issue-remains-undecided/#comment-93126</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Clancy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2014 18:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=11021#comment-93126</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think some kinda of cycling infrastructure is needed.  I think these buffered lanes could work with some tweaks, mostly at the left turns on Main and right turns on Idaho &#038; Capitol. 

I find it interesting that we are getting almost daily updates on the survey and comments.   I have never seen survey results and comments released before a final decision is made in a government agency.    It is almost like they are are trying to skew the results one way or another.

EDITOR NOTE--Clancy, I agree.  Who would have thought bikes would come down to being a political issue…and I would venture, generational.   i.e.  &quot;Old conservatives don&#039;t like bike lanes, young progressives want to get rid of cars.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think some kinda of cycling infrastructure is needed.  I think these buffered lanes could work with some tweaks, mostly at the left turns on Main and right turns on Idaho &amp; Capitol. </p>
<p>I find it interesting that we are getting almost daily updates on the survey and comments.   I have never seen survey results and comments released before a final decision is made in a government agency.    It is almost like they are are trying to skew the results one way or another.</p>
<p>EDITOR NOTE&#8211;Clancy, I agree.  Who would have thought bikes would come down to being a political issue…and I would venture, generational.   i.e.  &#8220;Old conservatives don&#8217;t like bike lanes, young progressives want to get rid of cars.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Easterner		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2014/05/22/bikes-vs-car-issue-remains-undecided/#comment-93085</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Easterner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2014 16:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=11021#comment-93085</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[JJ, I agree,  I think the intent would be to make some improvements on the appearance, i.e. using a curb instead of candles, 
 I would rather see the money spent on other infrastucture such another bike parking area-monitored and completing other bike lanes in Ada County. 

The #1 factor should be safety for cyclists, pedestrians, &#038; even motorists. 

I thought is was telling at yesterday&#039;s meeting 4 of the 5 commissioners had not biked in the lanes yet.   Rebecca Arnold said she intentionally avoids those streets now. 
 
It does seem the Commissioners are reading the ACHD website input function of TELLUS as they call it.   tellus@achdidaho.org]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JJ, I agree,  I think the intent would be to make some improvements on the appearance, i.e. using a curb instead of candles,<br />
 I would rather see the money spent on other infrastucture such another bike parking area-monitored and completing other bike lanes in Ada County. </p>
<p>The #1 factor should be safety for cyclists, pedestrians, &amp; even motorists. </p>
<p>I thought is was telling at yesterday&#8217;s meeting 4 of the 5 commissioners had not biked in the lanes yet.   Rebecca Arnold said she intentionally avoids those streets now. </p>
<p>It does seem the Commissioners are reading the ACHD website input function of TELLUS as they call it.   <a href="mailto:tellus@achdidaho.org">tellus@achdidaho.org</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: JJ		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2014/05/22/bikes-vs-car-issue-remains-undecided/#comment-93056</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2014 14:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=11021#comment-93056</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I frequently bike downtown, and while I appreciate the bike lanes, I voted for their removal, my biggest issue is how ugly it makes the streetscape.  It looks like a permanent construction zone.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I frequently bike downtown, and while I appreciate the bike lanes, I voted for their removal, my biggest issue is how ugly it makes the streetscape.  It looks like a permanent construction zone.</p>
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		<title>
		By: yeahbut		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2014/05/22/bikes-vs-car-issue-remains-undecided/#comment-92967</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[yeahbut]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2014 01:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=11021#comment-92967</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[After attending the ACHD meeting today I&#039;ll be surprised if the bike lane test continues beyond the June 4 date of the next ACHD meeting.  A few commenters testified directly or alluded to the fact that the bike lanes convert some 25%-33% of the road to benefit no more than 6% of the users.  As one who uses and enjoys the bike lanes, I have to yield to that compelling economic argument against them.  If there was a chance that Boiseans might convert in droves and flood the bike lanes at 10x the current rate; different story.  I&#039;d love to see that happen but don&#039;t see it as a possiblilty right now.  If that happens...even in the absence of dedicated bike lanes, the population pressure of those hundreds of cyclists on the road will accomplish what the bike lanes are attempting: to force motorists to provide space for safe passage of cyclists.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After attending the ACHD meeting today I&#8217;ll be surprised if the bike lane test continues beyond the June 4 date of the next ACHD meeting.  A few commenters testified directly or alluded to the fact that the bike lanes convert some 25%-33% of the road to benefit no more than 6% of the users.  As one who uses and enjoys the bike lanes, I have to yield to that compelling economic argument against them.  If there was a chance that Boiseans might convert in droves and flood the bike lanes at 10x the current rate; different story.  I&#8217;d love to see that happen but don&#8217;t see it as a possiblilty right now.  If that happens&#8230;even in the absence of dedicated bike lanes, the population pressure of those hundreds of cyclists on the road will accomplish what the bike lanes are attempting: to force motorists to provide space for safe passage of cyclists.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Porcupine		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2014/05/22/bikes-vs-car-issue-remains-undecided/#comment-92883</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Porcupine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2014 14:51:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=11021#comment-92883</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The bike lanes downtown are a done deal.  Doesn&#039;t matter what the majority of people think.  Feel sorry for what is going to happen to the merchants.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The bike lanes downtown are a done deal.  Doesn&#8217;t matter what the majority of people think.  Feel sorry for what is going to happen to the merchants.</p>
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		<title>
		By: yeahbut		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2014/05/22/bikes-vs-car-issue-remains-undecided/#comment-92815</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[yeahbut]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2014 02:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=11021#comment-92815</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve tested all the test lanes several times at different times of the day. It&#039;s more comfortable to have a &quot;place where I belong&quot; on the road. But...I was left-hooked several times on Main and saw one driver who held back to let me pass honked at by the one following. Driver non-understanding/resistance to this change is huge and potentially lethal. I agree with Bikeboy&#039;s comments about underutilization of the space allocated.  At this time in Boise, cyclists and motorists might be better served by requiring adherence to &quot;take the lane&quot; and &quot;three feet to pass&quot; rules for cyclists in traffic. That would return whole lanes to drivers in exchange for allowing and aiding safe passage of the occasional cyclist. And if whole groups of cyclists end up taking whole lanes for whole blocks, it&#039;s the same result as having a dedicated lane.....for that group and few minutes.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve tested all the test lanes several times at different times of the day. It&#8217;s more comfortable to have a &#8220;place where I belong&#8221; on the road. But&#8230;I was left-hooked several times on Main and saw one driver who held back to let me pass honked at by the one following. Driver non-understanding/resistance to this change is huge and potentially lethal. I agree with Bikeboy&#8217;s comments about underutilization of the space allocated.  At this time in Boise, cyclists and motorists might be better served by requiring adherence to &#8220;take the lane&#8221; and &#8220;three feet to pass&#8221; rules for cyclists in traffic. That would return whole lanes to drivers in exchange for allowing and aiding safe passage of the occasional cyclist. And if whole groups of cyclists end up taking whole lanes for whole blocks, it&#8217;s the same result as having a dedicated lane&#8230;..for that group and few minutes.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Easterner		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2014/05/22/bikes-vs-car-issue-remains-undecided/#comment-92743</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Easterner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2014 15:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=11021#comment-92743</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I second Bikeboys comments. 
I live in East Boise and Work in &#039;west Downtown&#039;.  

When I drive to work I drive Main and Idaho.   When I bike to work/or anywhere westward I do not use Main or Idaho. I still do not. 

Bikeboy, I hope you can make it to the ACHD meeting to testify.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I second Bikeboys comments.<br />
I live in East Boise and Work in &#8216;west Downtown&#8217;.  </p>
<p>When I drive to work I drive Main and Idaho.   When I bike to work/or anywhere westward I do not use Main or Idaho. I still do not. </p>
<p>Bikeboy, I hope you can make it to the ACHD meeting to testify.</p>
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		<title>
		By: boisecynic		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2014/05/22/bikes-vs-car-issue-remains-undecided/#comment-92735</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[boisecynic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2014 14:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=11021#comment-92735</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Let me add this:

Don&#039;t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me add this:</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.</p>
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		<title>
		By: boisecynic		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2014/05/22/bikes-vs-car-issue-remains-undecided/#comment-92731</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[boisecynic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2014 14:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=11021#comment-92731</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Cyclists organized? Maybe not. More apt to give input? Obviously. 

But what ACHD doesn&#039;t tell us is if they&#039;re filtering submissions from identical IP addresses. 

I&#039;m guessing that most cyclists are aged 20 to 35 and more likely to be tech savvy. That is they  know they can clear their cookies or use multiple browsers or proxy servers to enter the survey more than once. I&#039;m guessing many of them have multiple email addresses and multiple internet capable devices, like a work computer, home computer, and cellular smart phone all with different IP addresses. There would be no way to tell if there&#039;s vote brigading. 

What about less tech savvy users (older husband and wife) in a single household with a single IP address. It wouldn&#039;t be fair to exclude those legitimate results.

Danger factor: 

Drivers making lefts off of Main is definitely a more dangerous situation than before. A row of parked SUVs or even cars blocks the view of drivers from seeing cyclists in the bike lane. This makes a left hook very likely. It makes pedestrians less safe. I find myself looking right for light runners, then over my shoulder to the left for cyclists and the last thing I look for is a pedestrian in the crosswalk. But I&#039;m in a hurry to cross the crosswalk because I don&#039;t want a cyclist broadsiding me while I&#039;m turning left.

In fact this is absurd. It is patently illegal to make a left or right from other than the left most or right most travel lane unless stripped as a multiple turn lane. To have turning traffic cross over thru traffic defies logic and it defies common sense.

Usage:

I drive Main everyday. I count the cars and cyclists. Moving cars far outnumber moving cyclists. 20 to 1 or more. It&#039;s probably 100 to 1. 

Summary:

Given the constraints of history and topography motorists will never have a new road punched through downtown. The bike lanes are a shoehorning hatchet job. Cyclists and motorists and going to have to settle for something that&#039;s less than perfect. 

Grove and Bannock are good enough. Remove the wooden planks and pave the 8th Street trestle.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cyclists organized? Maybe not. More apt to give input? Obviously. </p>
<p>But what ACHD doesn&#8217;t tell us is if they&#8217;re filtering submissions from identical IP addresses. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m guessing that most cyclists are aged 20 to 35 and more likely to be tech savvy. That is they  know they can clear their cookies or use multiple browsers or proxy servers to enter the survey more than once. I&#8217;m guessing many of them have multiple email addresses and multiple internet capable devices, like a work computer, home computer, and cellular smart phone all with different IP addresses. There would be no way to tell if there&#8217;s vote brigading. </p>
<p>What about less tech savvy users (older husband and wife) in a single household with a single IP address. It wouldn&#8217;t be fair to exclude those legitimate results.</p>
<p>Danger factor: </p>
<p>Drivers making lefts off of Main is definitely a more dangerous situation than before. A row of parked SUVs or even cars blocks the view of drivers from seeing cyclists in the bike lane. This makes a left hook very likely. It makes pedestrians less safe. I find myself looking right for light runners, then over my shoulder to the left for cyclists and the last thing I look for is a pedestrian in the crosswalk. But I&#8217;m in a hurry to cross the crosswalk because I don&#8217;t want a cyclist broadsiding me while I&#8217;m turning left.</p>
<p>In fact this is absurd. It is patently illegal to make a left or right from other than the left most or right most travel lane unless stripped as a multiple turn lane. To have turning traffic cross over thru traffic defies logic and it defies common sense.</p>
<p>Usage:</p>
<p>I drive Main everyday. I count the cars and cyclists. Moving cars far outnumber moving cyclists. 20 to 1 or more. It&#8217;s probably 100 to 1. </p>
<p>Summary:</p>
<p>Given the constraints of history and topography motorists will never have a new road punched through downtown. The bike lanes are a shoehorning hatchet job. Cyclists and motorists and going to have to settle for something that&#8217;s less than perfect. </p>
<p>Grove and Bannock are good enough. Remove the wooden planks and pave the 8th Street trestle.</p>
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		<title>
		By: erico49		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2014/05/22/bikes-vs-car-issue-remains-undecided/#comment-92726</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[erico49]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2014 13:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=11021#comment-92726</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I was interested in Bike Boy&#039;s email exchange with an engineer at ACHD. It&#039;s been my experience that they are pretty responsive to questions and serious comments. Certainly more than other agencies and media. ITD and the County are hit or miss (many more misses than hits). TV stations almost never respond to any sort of criticism. Maybe they are better if the message is all sunshine and sweetness. The Statesman is great. Their reporters almost always respond.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was interested in Bike Boy&#8217;s email exchange with an engineer at ACHD. It&#8217;s been my experience that they are pretty responsive to questions and serious comments. Certainly more than other agencies and media. ITD and the County are hit or miss (many more misses than hits). TV stations almost never respond to any sort of criticism. Maybe they are better if the message is all sunshine and sweetness. The Statesman is great. Their reporters almost always respond.</p>
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