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	<title>
	Comments on: Airport Noise Issue Causes Citizen Turbulence	</title>
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	<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2015/09/24/airport-noise-issue-causes-citizen-turbulence/</link>
	<description>A different slant on the news.</description>
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		<title>
		By: Jason		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2015/09/24/airport-noise-issue-causes-citizen-turbulence/#comment-100105</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2015 17:26:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=12212#comment-100105</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Henry, it&#039;s also possible that the modeling is updated. In 2004 the freeway was not as big as it is now, either - all that flat surface can make already present sounds louder (in addition to the increased freeway traffic). To me, it looks like the contour maps from 2003-2009 are the same - http://www.iflyboise.com/airport-guide/about-the-airport/noise-compatibility-program/ - and only the 2015 map is different, probably an updated study (triggered by the need to estimate the F-15 impact). If the airport traffic decreased from 2003-2009, it&#039;s less important to re-do the study, and the maps were likely just carried over to the next year, since any error would be on the side of &#039;less loud&#039;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Henry, it&#8217;s also possible that the modeling is updated. In 2004 the freeway was not as big as it is now, either &#8211; all that flat surface can make already present sounds louder (in addition to the increased freeway traffic). To me, it looks like the contour maps from 2003-2009 are the same &#8211; <a href="http://www.iflyboise.com/airport-guide/about-the-airport/noise-compatibility-program/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.iflyboise.com/airport-guide/about-the-airport/noise-compatibility-program/</a> &#8211; and only the 2015 map is different, probably an updated study (triggered by the need to estimate the F-15 impact). If the airport traffic decreased from 2003-2009, it&#8217;s less important to re-do the study, and the maps were likely just carried over to the next year, since any error would be on the side of &#8216;less loud&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Henry Wiebe		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2015/09/24/airport-noise-issue-causes-citizen-turbulence/#comment-100104</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Henry Wiebe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2015 00:44:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=12212#comment-100104</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If you have 50% fewer planes flying, how can you expand the noise impact; ie DNL?  

IN the VIDEO:
The Black contour is from the 2004 study. 
The Yellow contour is from the 2015 study. 
Notice that the yellow DNL 65 stretches north more than the 2004 study. In fact, it stretches to the 2004 60DNL contour line. 

This is important because mathematically this is impossible if the 2004 model is to be believed.

Flights have have seriously dropped off from 2004 levels; apx 178,000 in 2004 vs apx 112,000 in 2013. 

Another way to say this is the airport isn&#039;t as busy as it was in 2004. If there are fewer planes taking off, then the DNL boundary should be less. 

My conclusion is the model is a joke.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you have 50% fewer planes flying, how can you expand the noise impact; ie DNL?  </p>
<p>IN the VIDEO:<br />
The Black contour is from the 2004 study.<br />
The Yellow contour is from the 2015 study.<br />
Notice that the yellow DNL 65 stretches north more than the 2004 study. In fact, it stretches to the 2004 60DNL contour line. </p>
<p>This is important because mathematically this is impossible if the 2004 model is to be believed.</p>
<p>Flights have have seriously dropped off from 2004 levels; apx 178,000 in 2004 vs apx 112,000 in 2013. </p>
<p>Another way to say this is the airport isn&#8217;t as busy as it was in 2004. If there are fewer planes taking off, then the DNL boundary should be less. </p>
<p>My conclusion is the model is a joke.</p>
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		<title>
		By: JJ		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2015/09/24/airport-noise-issue-causes-citizen-turbulence/#comment-100103</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2015 00:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=12212#comment-100103</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I watched it and came to the conclusion the noise around the airport has decreased since 2004 and it appears the noise reduction has come from a decrease in air traffic.  However I am not connecting the video to an argument in favor or against increased air operations at the airport]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I watched it and came to the conclusion the noise around the airport has decreased since 2004 and it appears the noise reduction has come from a decrease in air traffic.  However I am not connecting the video to an argument in favor or against increased air operations at the airport</p>
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		<title>
		By: Zippo		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2015/09/24/airport-noise-issue-causes-citizen-turbulence/#comment-100102</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zippo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2015 23:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=12212#comment-100102</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Henry, Thank you for your efforts BUT: There is a significant difference in experienced noise @60db vs. @65db.  Which is perhaps why the line is in a slightly different geographic location?  Intentionally misleading perhaps... or perhaps a different noise engineer.  Also number of flight operations has not to do with peak noise.  So I&#039;m not sure what your point is.  

I&#039;m against a noise increase at the airport, but let’s not paddle up the wrong creek trying to stop it.  There&#039;s no need to find the secret hidden clue... it&#039;s not hidden... it&#039;s in your face... they don&#039;t care at all because they know they are safe at election time.  If we want to win this, we must force this issue on the candidates well before the November election... local media won&#039;t touch it.

This is about money.  For example, the capacity of the airport has been expanded while flight operations has fallen by 40% over the last 10-12 years... it&#039;s just a big money grubbing government jobs program out there.  If they don&#039;t get a fighter base here they&#039;ll apply for grant money to reduce the size of the airport though deconstruction for 20 years... then they&#039;ll expand it again for 20 years and so on and so on.  It all just money for public works contracts for favored political donors... need has nothing to do with it.

(Strongly suggest a tripod for anyone posting anything on YouTube.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Henry, Thank you for your efforts BUT: There is a significant difference in experienced noise @60db vs. @65db.  Which is perhaps why the line is in a slightly different geographic location?  Intentionally misleading perhaps&#8230; or perhaps a different noise engineer.  Also number of flight operations has not to do with peak noise.  So I&#8217;m not sure what your point is.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m against a noise increase at the airport, but let’s not paddle up the wrong creek trying to stop it.  There&#8217;s no need to find the secret hidden clue&#8230; it&#8217;s not hidden&#8230; it&#8217;s in your face&#8230; they don&#8217;t care at all because they know they are safe at election time.  If we want to win this, we must force this issue on the candidates well before the November election&#8230; local media won&#8217;t touch it.</p>
<p>This is about money.  For example, the capacity of the airport has been expanded while flight operations has fallen by 40% over the last 10-12 years&#8230; it&#8217;s just a big money grubbing government jobs program out there.  If they don&#8217;t get a fighter base here they&#8217;ll apply for grant money to reduce the size of the airport though deconstruction for 20 years&#8230; then they&#8217;ll expand it again for 20 years and so on and so on.  It all just money for public works contracts for favored political donors&#8230; need has nothing to do with it.</p>
<p>(Strongly suggest a tripod for anyone posting anything on YouTube.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Henry Wiebe		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2015/09/24/airport-noise-issue-causes-citizen-turbulence/#comment-100101</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Henry Wiebe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2015 18:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=12212#comment-100101</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[UPDATE: Watch this YOUTUBE I made which shows an obvious lack of logic offered by the BOI Noise Study. 
https://youtu.be/Wc4oG-dNoVs . Garbage in, garbage out. The model is flawed.

EDITOR NOTE--Henry, we had trouble understanding the video.  Might want to try the explanation again as it
was confusing.  Anyone else?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UPDATE: Watch this YOUTUBE I made which shows an obvious lack of logic offered by the BOI Noise Study.<br />
<a href="https://youtu.be/Wc4oG-dNoVs" rel="nofollow ugc">https://youtu.be/Wc4oG-dNoVs</a> . Garbage in, garbage out. The model is flawed.</p>
<p>EDITOR NOTE&#8211;Henry, we had trouble understanding the video.  Might want to try the explanation again as it<br />
was confusing.  Anyone else?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Zippo		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2015/09/24/airport-noise-issue-causes-citizen-turbulence/#comment-100096</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zippo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2015 18:08:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=12212#comment-100096</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Voting:  If the citizens effected by this proposal organize as a voting block in city/county elections, it will be the largest voting block in Boise/Ada County.  It will swing any vote.  That is direction the anti-noise effort should be headed right now.  

Bieter&#039;s power has always resided in boring election issues and low voter turnout.  (Legacy media traditionally fails Boise by not raising election issue flags... Thank You Guardian!)

Where to park the airplanes:  All the MONEY will still be in the Boise valley area even if all the NOISE is at MHAFB.

Motives:  This is about Bieter wanting to be hands on that new money and the USAF wanting their fighter jocks living very near the base rather than commuting to Boise as they do now. (Kinda like St. Lukes building near doctor&#039;s homes.)  USAF also trains thousands of foreign pilots... thus the hospitality of metropolitan Boise greatly exceeds MHAFB.  Both Bieter and USAF are completely willing to destroy the value of thousands of homes and many millions of our net-worth to get their way.

Everyone be happy idea:  Base a quite aircraft in Boise.  Tankers, drones, transports, etc.  Keep the flame-throwing jet noise at MHAFB and Fallon NAS.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Voting:  If the citizens effected by this proposal organize as a voting block in city/county elections, it will be the largest voting block in Boise/Ada County.  It will swing any vote.  That is direction the anti-noise effort should be headed right now.  </p>
<p>Bieter&#8217;s power has always resided in boring election issues and low voter turnout.  (Legacy media traditionally fails Boise by not raising election issue flags&#8230; Thank You Guardian!)</p>
<p>Where to park the airplanes:  All the MONEY will still be in the Boise valley area even if all the NOISE is at MHAFB.</p>
<p>Motives:  This is about Bieter wanting to be hands on that new money and the USAF wanting their fighter jocks living very near the base rather than commuting to Boise as they do now. (Kinda like St. Lukes building near doctor&#8217;s homes.)  USAF also trains thousands of foreign pilots&#8230; thus the hospitality of metropolitan Boise greatly exceeds MHAFB.  Both Bieter and USAF are completely willing to destroy the value of thousands of homes and many millions of our net-worth to get their way.</p>
<p>Everyone be happy idea:  Base a quite aircraft in Boise.  Tankers, drones, transports, etc.  Keep the flame-throwing jet noise at MHAFB and Fallon NAS.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eagle Writer		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2015/09/24/airport-noise-issue-causes-citizen-turbulence/#comment-100095</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eagle Writer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2015 13:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=12212#comment-100095</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There seems to be two issues 1) the meeting was hijacked, and 2) airplanes are noisy.

I was not at the meeting, but I lived very near the airport for years. We sat on our back patio and watched the fire tankers lumber over our house taking off. They seemed so low and slow, and we could see the pilot&#039;s faces and we would exchange waves as they took their liquid cargo to a drop. 

We loved the C130&#039;s, and A10s, but the fast movers were a real treat. Yes, they are noisy, but it is the sound of freedom, and we enjoyed it everyday.

Growing up in the oil patch in the midwest I was taught that the smell of oil was the smell of money. The same goes for being in cattle country. And fighter jets are simply the audio of freedom amplified.

Instead of protesting, try smiling and saluting them when they fly over. Let&#039;s make them welcome.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There seems to be two issues 1) the meeting was hijacked, and 2) airplanes are noisy.</p>
<p>I was not at the meeting, but I lived very near the airport for years. We sat on our back patio and watched the fire tankers lumber over our house taking off. They seemed so low and slow, and we could see the pilot&#8217;s faces and we would exchange waves as they took their liquid cargo to a drop. </p>
<p>We loved the C130&#8217;s, and A10s, but the fast movers were a real treat. Yes, they are noisy, but it is the sound of freedom, and we enjoyed it everyday.</p>
<p>Growing up in the oil patch in the midwest I was taught that the smell of oil was the smell of money. The same goes for being in cattle country. And fighter jets are simply the audio of freedom amplified.</p>
<p>Instead of protesting, try smiling and saluting them when they fly over. Let&#8217;s make them welcome.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steve Rinehart		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2015/09/24/airport-noise-issue-causes-citizen-turbulence/#comment-100094</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Rinehart]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2015 05:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=12212#comment-100094</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Noise is a good reason to move military air ops away from Boise municipal airport and over to the existing military base in Mnt. Home. There are others: closer access to air combat flight training range, room to expand on the ground, operational efficiency between military units, save Boise taxpayers the Gowen maintenance cost. I have not heard reasons to keep military here.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Noise is a good reason to move military air ops away from Boise municipal airport and over to the existing military base in Mnt. Home. There are others: closer access to air combat flight training range, room to expand on the ground, operational efficiency between military units, save Boise taxpayers the Gowen maintenance cost. I have not heard reasons to keep military here.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steve Rinehart		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2015/09/24/airport-noise-issue-causes-citizen-turbulence/#comment-100093</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Rinehart]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2015 04:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=12212#comment-100093</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I can think of lots of reasons why it makes sense to move military air ops out of the municipal airport in Boise and over to the existing military airport in Mountain Home. Right off the top of my head: Noise; operational efficiency; room for expansion; closer to existing air combat training range; save the city maintenance cost at Gowen. I have not heard reasons it does not make sense to make this move. What are they? Maybe, instead of calling each other nimbys and knotheads, we could have a smarter conversation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can think of lots of reasons why it makes sense to move military air ops out of the municipal airport in Boise and over to the existing military airport in Mountain Home. Right off the top of my head: Noise; operational efficiency; room for expansion; closer to existing air combat training range; save the city maintenance cost at Gowen. I have not heard reasons it does not make sense to make this move. What are they? Maybe, instead of calling each other nimbys and knotheads, we could have a smarter conversation.</p>
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		<title>
		By: john		</title>
		<link>https://boiseguardian.com/2015/09/24/airport-noise-issue-causes-citizen-turbulence/#comment-100092</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[john]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2015 02:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://boiseguardian.com/?p=12212#comment-100092</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[hmmm, try living under a flight path and the military stuff comes in low and slow and LOUD AS HELL .... this is central meridian i&#039;m talkin about. SO it&#039;s not a where you live issue to me but the fact that they could easily fly in a quieter manner but they don&#039;t. WT heck is that all about. Impressing the citizens so we get all pumped up with military support? RRRGGGHHHH   Iv&#039;e been quoted as saying If I wanted to live next to a Navy base I would move next to a Navy base. So I live a 30 minute drive from the airport yet still get buzzed like I&#039;m living on base. Ridiculous.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hmmm, try living under a flight path and the military stuff comes in low and slow and LOUD AS HELL &#8230;. this is central meridian i&#8217;m talkin about. SO it&#8217;s not a where you live issue to me but the fact that they could easily fly in a quieter manner but they don&#8217;t. WT heck is that all about. Impressing the citizens so we get all pumped up with military support? RRRGGGHHHH   Iv&#8217;e been quoted as saying If I wanted to live next to a Navy base I would move next to a Navy base. So I live a 30 minute drive from the airport yet still get buzzed like I&#8217;m living on base. Ridiculous.</p>
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