That is a very accurate description of the problem, Guardian. I find it very hard to believe that Mexico and the USA can’t find a way to give visas to those folks who want to work here and have some kind of orderly coming and going. I believe that big corporations like having the Mexicans be in an illegal status so that they will continue to be cheap labor with no recourse to the US government if they are ill-treated.

When I was a young woman, in the 60’s, I took a job with Swift & Co. at a meat packing plant on Wylie Lane off State Street. Most of the meat packers were Hispanic but the meat packing industry was unionized in those days so those guys were, to the best of my knowledge, getting pretty good wages. (I was not unionized and made $57.00/week for 40 hours.)

Since unions have been pretty much gutted, workers of any national background are seeing serious slippage in both wages and benefits. (Benefits – what benefits?) I read one article that indicated meat packers make about 60% less than 25 years ago. It is hard work and the folks who do it deserve good wages. (Did you notice that when Bob Vasquez tried to get the RICO people to investigate Swift & Co. in Nampa last fall that Swift Co. suddenly ran out of beef and shut down? My instincts tell me they probably had lots of illegals on the payroll.)

I believe if the large corporations and their lobbyists weren’t running this country we could find a way for Mexicans to work here without being in an illegal status. It is our federal government that is totally out of control.

One reason people want control of the border – which this administration can’t seem to get around to – is to weed out the potential terrorists, drug smugglers, prostitution traffic, and other illegal activities. Unfortunately it is the blue collar working people who are paying the price.

If we had an intelligent person running our government perhaps we could work together with Mexico to create a workable system of people working here temporarily and then going home, and also to reconnect families who have become separated by their status in being in the US.

I have never seen a more inept administration. There doesn’t seem to be any consideration for the working class of any nationality.

Guardian says “the disproportionate number of Mexicans in our prisons is not because…” I have had an interest in this issue for several years now and have watched the jail rosters in both Ada and Canyon Counties for evidence of this reported illegal Mexican disproportion. It is true that there are disproportionate numbers of Mexicans in jail. HOWEVER, by far the majority are NOT ILLEGAL.

Most are Mexican Americans, legal in this country, who for whatever reasons (and I could analyze this but won’t here, because I need to leave for church in a bit) have broke the law and are now incarcerated. Only a handful are held on immigration violations along with other criminal charges. The gangs in the Canyon County area, are for the most part nasty little thugs who were born and raised here and whose parents were raised in this country. There are drugs that come into the area because of the illegal migration. My contention is that these same drugs are as much a scourge on the mexican communities as they are on the caucasian communities, if not more. Because of the number of addicts in the valley , if the drugs didn’t come from Mexico, I can assure you they would still come. That isn’t condoning, just being honest.

I believe something needs to be done to increase border security. I also believe it is a sin that it takes 9-14 years for honest people to go through the process the US has established to gain citizenship. Many of my ancestors came here from other countries. My husband’s grandparents immigrated here from Germany and at 88 years of age can barely speak English today. Their children can barely speak German. Same with the Basque people. Many of the first generation in the US never learned English. They saw to it their children did.

A good amount of the field work was once done by teenage summer help. I know because I did my share of topping corn, hoeing beets, picking strawberries, thinning and picking fruit in the orchards. I HATED IT. The money was good (for a teenager back then with meager needs). I see young people today with their razor phones and blackberries and wonder if they can get to be 21 without ever raising a blister. I think if it paid $20 an hour they would still be hard pressed to do such back breaking work. I do hate that we have a system of servitude where illegal Mexicans make below poverty wage for some of the most difficult work. I hate it more that there is no way, under the current system, for them to gain legal status, that makes any sense.

Jon, there is more than one kind of tax. Even if claiming m-10, and paying few income taxes, social security tax is withheld regardless. This is paid in on behalf of persons with no way to EVER collect ANY of it. Where does that money go and who benefits from it?

Just a few comments about this issue…

Rounding up the illegals is ludicrous. Think for one split second about the cost! It is insane to even think about this as an option.

How many people who are saying we should get rid of them all, would allow their precious kids to do stoop labor, wash dishes, pick crops, clean houses and so on?

What would restaraunts, custodial companies, hotels, farms, etc do if all of the illegals were deported tomorrow?

Fact is, we have to accept the big mess we made.

Since Joe Moran’s idea for a solution isn’t realistically going to happen (whether you like it or not), there ought to be some other action taking place to begin what is going to have to be a long range solution that will take a long time to achieve.

First, seal the borders so whatever is done in the U.S. to deal with those illegally in the country keeps those sent home at home. (Putting up a wall may cause a stir, but it sure worked in solving a problem Israel was having — like eliminating the suicide bombings). Once the border is under control, return the illegals in federal prisons to their country of origin (an action that I understand would cut federal numbers by at least a quarter and reduce operating costs by more than $1 Billion — money that could go into other activities to deal with the issue).

Sorting out those who should stay and those who should go ought to happen after controls are in place that would then allow border crossings of an appropriate nature.

You geniuses ever heard of NAFTA? This was a bi -partisan boondoggle equally embraced by both political part bosses who are made up of greedy bastards. NAFTA brought slave wages to Mexico and lost jobs to the US. After NAFTA, wages went down in Mexico. That’s why laborers flooded the US. Who benefitted? Rich, greedy Americans and Mexicans.

Want to take care of part of the problem? Get congress to eliminate farm subsidies. Corporate farming cannot exist without welfare from the Federal Government. The corporate farm welfare IS the profit. You probably don’t even bother to look at ag commodity prices in the paper. The prices have been stagnant for years. Wheat was worth more 30 years ago than today. By making corporate farms larger and using slave wage migrant labor you increase your profit, you get to keep more ag welfare. The word “family farm” is the same political tool as “family values”. Only the stupid lick that cone, but boy, it shore makes ya feel good, don’t it.

Are you willing to pay $3.00-5.00 for an apple like in Japan? As long as you want to shop at a giant grocery store and expect cheap food you are going to have illegal labor and all the problems. Try growing your own food and see how much work it is. Big, mostly Republican Idaho farmers depend on a never ending supply of cheap labor. How many years can a person expect to do that kind of work? They need replacements every year. They also depend on massive farm subsidies to stay profitable. How do you think the groundwater pumpers can stay in business. You subsidize them with water and taxes. Ask Bruce how much he gets in US Government welfare.

There is a solution here and racial hatred will only make it harder to accomp[lish.
1- all businesses that hire illegals should be fined heavily with felony’s for the owners ( not thee illegals whose deportation will be paid for by the fines.)
2-Raise the minimum wage $2.00 over two years.
3-Make all US companies that re-locate oversea’s continue to pay taxes and fine their corporate offices at home heavily for using a ” USA company to ignore USA labor Laws!!!”
4- Publish lists of those Congress people benifitting from campaign contributions from these same companies and put them up before the Senate ethics panel before their constituents get a chance to get rid of them.
Again, the culprits are the US and Mexican governments and the Big ” Pork” Business’s that finance their policies.

In doing additional research the percentage of illegal immigrants in federal prison includes all those who are being held for deportation. That includes thousands who aren’t there for drugs, alcohol, or any other violation of statutes that make them criminals in the “gang banger” sense of the word. They are people who came here to make a better life for their families and perhaps have violated no OTHER law. It also includes those from many other countries who have come here without authorization.

Tam, Do I get to pick and choose the laws that I think should be enforced? I sure could “Better’ myself and family if you let me skate around some. Criminals are in jail or prison because they broke laws that everyone has to follow.

As a naturalized US citizen, and one whose grandfather didn’t speak English until he was in grade school (and he spoke with a thick accent until the day he died), I find this discussion facinating.

In a nation composed mostly of immigrants (the only “natural citizen” being an aboriginal Native American), I am constantly at a loss when someone uses the term “Illegal Immigrant”. My humble position is that the only illegality committed in the name of immigration is when a person is forced into America as a slave. Unfortunately this does still occur, and it is not just the white-slavery foisted upon some sex-workers.

The flow of goods across political borders in the current global market is expotentially increasing, facilitated by a none-to-judicious application of new trade laws.

Combine this with the relative fixity of the laborer, forcing them to choose between abject poverty and a life under an assumed identity in a foreign country, and you’ve hit upon the magic recipe for an immigration “problem”.

Canadians seem to take a much more enlightened approach. Since they understand that their current citizen population is aging, they see immigrants as the necessary influx of needed labor. Canadians view such immigration as a way to fill the employment ranks of the healthcare and service industries. Applying for, and recieving, citizen status in Canada is much easier than in the US because that government sees an immigrant as a potential citizen – not as a potential criminal.

As for deporting such workers from US soil – for what reason? For paying sales tax on all the goods they’ve purchased, for paying all the real estate tax they’ve paid through apartment rents, for paying into a social security system from which they will never benefit, for harvesting the vast majority of the fruits and vegetables we eat?

Sure, deport them. Then present them with a big fat reimbursement check for all the tax money they’ve contributed to a system that treats them as a social pariah.

By the way, I’m not an American citizen by birth – because I was born in a foreign county, to American parents, and this country’s laws required that parents like mine needed to file a special petition to officially decline their newborn’s citizen status. My young parents were ignorant of this law – not knowing the intricacies of this foreign county’s citizenship laws. I don’t even know how to speak the language of my “home” country, since I left before I was two years old. Sound familiar?

And my grandfather? He was born a US citizen in a small rural town in Wisconsin, into a household that only spoke Norwegian. He was beaten at school by his teachers if he ever spoke anything but English – uff da.

If “alien labor is vital to American lifestyle” then illegal alien labor is vital To Americans that hire illegal aliens, either directly or indirectly.

It might do us all some good, physically, mentally, emotionally and psychologically to get off our butts and do some labor each day. It did not hurt me. Then I got out of the service, out of college and got a “real” job sitting on my butt at a desk.

Another solution, beside “the solution is to pay more and get less”, is to get off our butts and do some manual labor each day. Easier said than done.

It is not too hard to hire illegals to work in Detroit! Go there and see.

Not an immigration problem?

Control the the borders, language and culture.

Yes, we have an employer and an economic problem.

I made 10 cents an hour when I was 10 years old chopping corn, thistles and sunflowers out of beans and chopping thistles and sunflowers out of corn.

The employer may withhold both parts of the social security taxes but that doesn’t mean that the employer sends those taxes to the social security administration. Guess who benefits and who doesn’t. Not the worker and not anyone collecting social security benefits.

280+million vs 11+ million = 269+million

Ah well, such a loaded subject!

My best response to “i” is to correct his/her assumption, “If you care for them so much you should let some move in with you. and make sure they dont get taken advantage of by the big bad employers.”, in that I have taken great measures (and yes, made sacrifices in my personal & professional life) to protect the rights of people on US soil.

Regarding i’s concern related to immigrants driving up the rental market costs, well since the Boise area has been experiencing an historically high apartment vacancy rate (with corresponding low rents – compared to the home ownership market), and since i feels that immigrants in the Boise area are everywhere – there’s only one conclusion that we can reach. Immigrants (documented or otherwise) are having a net positive impact on the local housing market.

And, i is right on target concerning the illegal behavior of employers who fail to withhold taxes from employees’ pay – paying cash under the table, sub rasa.

But since very few businesses/politicians/farmers could survive a crack down on such employer misbehavior – I suspect that our economy is far more reliant on low-wage earners than we will admit (especially those who aren’t protected from labor laws, and who fear involving the police when they are mistreatmented).

Undocumented workers are not the problem, their presence is only the symtom of a deeper social/economic disease. Unfortunately, this disease has no name and can only be described by circumscribing its general sentiment, it is our (and I include myself) inability to live up to our own ideals regarding the kindness with which we should treat our fellow human beings.