Federal Government

Alien Labor Vital To American Lifestyle

Several readers have asked that we comment on the issue of immigration and the 11 million illegal aliens living in America–mostly so they can comment.

For the record we are talking mostly about Mexicans. Mexicans are from Mexico–just like Canadians are from Canada and Spanish are from Spain. This is about nationality not race, so please comment accordingly.

The GUARDIAN has spent time at the Mexican border, the Canadian border, and even visited the infamous “out sourcing” in Bangalore, India. We don’t claim to be experts, but we have devoted many hours of study trying to come up with an answer to the “alien problem.” There is only one solution and for many of us it may be a bullet we don’t wish to bite.

The solution is to pay more and get less.
migrant_worker1.jpg
The result of higher wages would be $2 apples and $400,000 homes with only 1000 square feet and a tiny lawn. Oh yeah, it might mean lower profits of some fat cats too.

Our “good economy” depends on cheap labor and we also enjoy low food prices on the backs of poorly paid migrant workers. They flock across our southern border because the wages in their own country are even lower.

We oft hear the statement, “Mexicans are hard workers and they will do the jobs Americans won’t do–especially in agriculture.”

That‘s only half true because the reason Americans won’t do the job is because they won’t work for poverty wages and live in shacks and big city slums. If the jobs older folks know as “stoop labor”–bending over picking and tending crops–paid $20 an hour you can bet there would be some Americans willing to put out. Higher wages would also encourage more illegals coming across the border looking for riches.

Some points to ponder:

–AMNESTY for the 11 million illegals would only serve to encourage more illegals. Many don’t want to be “Americans” they are here only for the money and to send it back to relatives in poverty stricken Mexico.

–GUEST WORKERS would have no right to vote or citizenship, but we could track them and tax them. Essentially making legal a system of apartheid and creating an underclass of society which would resent the “ruling class” and be a powder keg of social unrest–just like the Muslims in France.

–AUTOWORKERS in the U.S. are very well paid, but their jobs are being eliminated as the big companies move the factories to the cheap labor source in Mexico. It is too hard to hire illegals to work in Detroit!
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–BORDER PATROLS do little to stem the flow of illegals and it is impossible to round up 11 million people and frankly it would be inhumane if they were rounded up. If only half were from Mexico, that country couldn’t cope with 5.5 million unemployed dumped on their economy.

–DRUG TRAFFIC and crime accompany the illegals all too often. The disproportionate number of Mexicans in our prisons is not because of good wages paid by American farmers, landscapers, and hotel housekeeping!

–EAST INDIANS are well educated and talented people sought by many companies in the electronic and medical fields because they come to this country and work for less than Americans with the same skills–a defacto discrimination.

Calls for “sealing the borders and jailing all the “criminals” who are illegally in the country will do little more than create animosities far beyond those that exist today. In summary, we have an employer and an economic problem–not an immigration problem.

Comments & Discussion

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  1. That is a very accurate description of the problem, Guardian. I find it very hard to believe that Mexico and the USA can’t find a way to give visas to those folks who want to work here and have some kind of orderly coming and going. I believe that big corporations like having the Mexicans be in an illegal status so that they will continue to be cheap labor with no recourse to the US government if they are ill-treated.

    When I was a young woman, in the 60’s, I took a job with Swift & Co. at a meat packing plant on Wylie Lane off State Street. Most of the meat packers were Hispanic but the meat packing industry was unionized in those days so those guys were, to the best of my knowledge, getting pretty good wages. (I was not unionized and made $57.00/week for 40 hours.)

    Since unions have been pretty much gutted, workers of any national background are seeing serious slippage in both wages and benefits. (Benefits – what benefits?) I read one article that indicated meat packers make about 60% less than 25 years ago. It is hard work and the folks who do it deserve good wages. (Did you notice that when Bob Vasquez tried to get the RICO people to investigate Swift & Co. in Nampa last fall that Swift Co. suddenly ran out of beef and shut down? My instincts tell me they probably had lots of illegals on the payroll.)

    I believe if the large corporations and their lobbyists weren’t running this country we could find a way for Mexicans to work here without being in an illegal status. It is our federal government that is totally out of control.

    One reason people want control of the border – which this administration can’t seem to get around to – is to weed out the potential terrorists, drug smugglers, prostitution traffic, and other illegal activities. Unfortunately it is the blue collar working people who are paying the price.

    If we had an intelligent person running our government perhaps we could work together with Mexico to create a workable system of people working here temporarily and then going home, and also to reconnect families who have become separated by their status in being in the US.

    I have never seen a more inept administration. There doesn’t seem to be any consideration for the working class of any nationality.

  2. I’m one that believes we need to curb the flow of Mexican laborers. All you have to do is watch the news. Is it worth all the crime that it’s brought to Caldwell and Nampa. How about when one family moves into your neigborhood. All of a sudden there’s 6 cars park up and down the street and 3 family’s living there. Place is a mess and nothing you can do about it. Is it worth the cheap labor to watch our life style look like the slums.

  3. Guardian says “the disproportionate number of Mexicans in our prisons is not because…” I have had an interest in this issue for several years now and have watched the jail rosters in both Ada and Canyon Counties for evidence of this reported illegal Mexican disproportion. It is true that there are disproportionate numbers of Mexicans in jail. HOWEVER, by far the majority are NOT ILLEGAL.

    Most are Mexican Americans, legal in this country, who for whatever reasons (and I could analyze this but won’t here, because I need to leave for church in a bit) have broke the law and are now incarcerated. Only a handful are held on immigration violations along with other criminal charges. The gangs in the Canyon County area, are for the most part nasty little thugs who were born and raised here and whose parents were raised in this country. There are drugs that come into the area because of the illegal migration. My contention is that these same drugs are as much a scourge on the mexican communities as they are on the caucasian communities, if not more. Because of the number of addicts in the valley , if the drugs didn’t come from Mexico, I can assure you they would still come. That isn’t condoning, just being honest.

    I believe something needs to be done to increase border security. I also believe it is a sin that it takes 9-14 years for honest people to go through the process the US has established to gain citizenship. Many of my ancestors came here from other countries. My husband’s grandparents immigrated here from Germany and at 88 years of age can barely speak English today. Their children can barely speak German. Same with the Basque people. Many of the first generation in the US never learned English. They saw to it their children did.

    A good amount of the field work was once done by teenage summer help. I know because I did my share of topping corn, hoeing beets, picking strawberries, thinning and picking fruit in the orchards. I HATED IT. The money was good (for a teenager back then with meager needs). I see young people today with their razor phones and blackberries and wonder if they can get to be 21 without ever raising a blister. I think if it paid $20 an hour they would still be hard pressed to do such back breaking work. I do hate that we have a system of servitude where illegal Mexicans make below poverty wage for some of the most difficult work. I hate it more that there is no way, under the current system, for them to gain legal status, that makes any sense.

  4. Guardian – you missed two important points.

    1. The Mexican labor broker/businessman/interpreter who contracts with “local area businesses” to provide (illegal immigrant slave) labor, and then engages in kicking back money to the person who contacts for the (slave) labor to eliminate legitimate competitors (who will not engage in kickbacks). This goes on in any industry that uses small contractors – agriculture, landscape maintenance, construction, and even hotel/motel maintenance services. Remember the building maintenance episode with Walmart?
    We can do something to expose this mess. For those of you in homeowner associations, audit the contract that the association manager has for the landscape maintenance. If no contract, why not? Is the contractor registered with the State? Since he has employees, he should have an EIN (Employer Identification Number), an IRS requirement. What is his EIN? If you as an individual are contracting with a lawn maintenance company, since it may be in your area as a result of working for the homeowners association, you can require the contractor to disclose his EIN to you. If he does not disclose, he probably employes slave labor and does not pay taxes!

    If you are building a new home, ask your General Contractor for the EIN for each one of his subcontractors. You should not be surprised that you paying the General Contractor to hiring slave labor (for which he is further enriching himself with kickbacks), and the subcontractors are not paying taxes!

    2. The claim that illegal immigrants are paying taxes is a myth. Just check any company’s payroll, and the illegals (those probably using phony SS cards) are claiming 10 or more exemptions, thus paying NO taxes.

  5. Jon, there is more than one kind of tax. Even if claiming m-10, and paying few income taxes, social security tax is withheld regardless. This is paid in on behalf of persons with no way to EVER collect ANY of it. Where does that money go and who benefits from it?

  6. Just a little fact. About 25% of all Federal prisoners are illegal immigrants. Not all come here to work.

  7. Ferris Beuller
    Apr 9, 2006, 6:25 pm

    Just a few comments about this issue…

    Rounding up the illegals is ludicrous. Think for one split second about the cost! It is insane to even think about this as an option.

    How many people who are saying we should get rid of them all, would allow their precious kids to do stoop labor, wash dishes, pick crops, clean houses and so on?

    What would restaraunts, custodial companies, hotels, farms, etc do if all of the illegals were deported tomorrow?

    Fact is, we have to accept the big mess we made.

  8. Illegal immigration is probably one of the most difficult and emotional issues to answer intellligently. The Guardian has mentioned many of it’s aspect’s yet left a solution open. I’ve lived in the NW USA for 29 years- most of those years if I could have been paid $ 8.00/hr. for field work I would have jumped on it and I suspect many low-income Americans would have done the same.

    At the core of this problem is again,GREED….assisted by corrupt governments in two countries, Mexico and the USA and their big business campaign contributors. They are the real felons , not the poverty stricken masses of either country.

    The solution – we can start by impeaching Bush and cabal, electing a congress that actually represents the people and assisting the Mexican people in getting rid of “insults to humanity” like Vincente Fox.”

  9. Since Joe Moran’s idea for a solution isn’t realistically going to happen (whether you like it or not), there ought to be some other action taking place to begin what is going to have to be a long range solution that will take a long time to achieve.

    First, seal the borders so whatever is done in the U.S. to deal with those illegally in the country keeps those sent home at home. (Putting up a wall may cause a stir, but it sure worked in solving a problem Israel was having — like eliminating the suicide bombings). Once the border is under control, return the illegals in federal prisons to their country of origin (an action that I understand would cut federal numbers by at least a quarter and reduce operating costs by more than $1 Billion — money that could go into other activities to deal with the issue).

    Sorting out those who should stay and those who should go ought to happen after controls are in place that would then allow border crossings of an appropriate nature.

  10. Stephen says, “Putting up a wall may cause a stir, but it sure worked in solving a problem Israel was having — like eliminating the suicide bombings”
    You’re joking, right?

    Boisean – do you have a link I could see for your statistics? That’s fascinating.

    I think Tam is right on the money with this (as is the Guardian, natch).

  11. You geniuses ever heard of NAFTA? This was a bi -partisan boondoggle equally embraced by both political part bosses who are made up of greedy bastards. NAFTA brought slave wages to Mexico and lost jobs to the US. After NAFTA, wages went down in Mexico. That’s why laborers flooded the US. Who benefitted? Rich, greedy Americans and Mexicans.

    Want to take care of part of the problem? Get congress to eliminate farm subsidies. Corporate farming cannot exist without welfare from the Federal Government. The corporate farm welfare IS the profit. You probably don’t even bother to look at ag commodity prices in the paper. The prices have been stagnant for years. Wheat was worth more 30 years ago than today. By making corporate farms larger and using slave wage migrant labor you increase your profit, you get to keep more ag welfare. The word “family farm” is the same political tool as “family values”. Only the stupid lick that cone, but boy, it shore makes ya feel good, don’t it.

    Are you willing to pay $3.00-5.00 for an apple like in Japan? As long as you want to shop at a giant grocery store and expect cheap food you are going to have illegal labor and all the problems. Try growing your own food and see how much work it is. Big, mostly Republican Idaho farmers depend on a never ending supply of cheap labor. How many years can a person expect to do that kind of work? They need replacements every year. They also depend on massive farm subsidies to stay profitable. How do you think the groundwater pumpers can stay in business. You subsidize them with water and taxes. Ask Bruce how much he gets in US Government welfare.

  12. Just for the record, the illegal laborer’s who perform farm work in this valley predate NAFTA by at least 40 years. I have uncles who oversaw the “labor” camps when I was a child. Children I went to school with would be here for as long as it took the fields and orchards to be cleared and then they moved to Washington State for a later crop. I am not disputing that NAFTA has been a negative…just not prepared to blame it for illegal migrant workers finding our corner of the world homey.

  13. There is a solution here and racial hatred will only make it harder to accomp[lish.
    1- all businesses that hire illegals should be fined heavily with felony’s for the owners ( not thee illegals whose deportation will be paid for by the fines.)
    2-Raise the minimum wage $2.00 over two years.
    3-Make all US companies that re-locate oversea’s continue to pay taxes and fine their corporate offices at home heavily for using a ” USA company to ignore USA labor Laws!!!”
    4- Publish lists of those Congress people benifitting from campaign contributions from these same companies and put them up before the Senate ethics panel before their constituents get a chance to get rid of them.
    Again, the culprits are the US and Mexican governments and the Big ” Pork” Business’s that finance their policies.

  14. View of the federal prison web site http://www.bop.gov. It is closer to 30% of fed prisoners are illegals

  15. In doing additional research the percentage of illegal immigrants in federal prison includes all those who are being held for deportation. That includes thousands who aren’t there for drugs, alcohol, or any other violation of statutes that make them criminals in the “gang banger” sense of the word. They are people who came here to make a better life for their families and perhaps have violated no OTHER law. It also includes those from many other countries who have come here without authorization.

  16. Tam, I mentioned NAFTA because it opened the illegal labor flood gates by depressing wages in Mexico. I don’t even count stoop labor. We’ve always needed that. Used to be called slave labor. I’m not blaming NAFTA for all illegal immigration. However, I will blame corporate farm welfare for the obesity problem we have in this country. Sugar of some form is in practically every packaged food product you can buy. Americans are addicted to sugar. If you had to pay the true cost of sugar rendered from a beet you’d blow your cookies. The government welfare subsidized food industry gets rich on the backs of taxpayers, illegal labor and now medicare and medicaid to pay for diabetic medical problems caused by obesity. It’s a win-win for the rich. Get tax payers to underwrite the risk and pad the profit. Try to make a living on 40 acres.

  17. Tam, Do I get to pick and choose the laws that I think should be enforced? I sure could “Better’ myself and family if you let me skate around some. Criminals are in jail or prison because they broke laws that everyone has to follow.

  18. Every low income person who works and whose employer reports their income will qualify that person to file a tax return. Our congress passed a law sometime ago called “Earned Income Credit.” Under this law persons with certain qualifications can get a credit and can also get Child Tax Credits for minor children. This means people who actually pay no or very little tax can get money from the government. This is a kind of welfare built into the income tax system. I expect that money back more than covers the FICA and Medicare tax that was withheld. I did not know this wealth transfer existed until very recently but it is there. I expect some people really need it and it is a decent thing to do but I think most people wouldn’t expect it to reward illegals for coming here.

  19. curious george
    Apr 13, 2006, 6:36 pm

    As a naturalized US citizen, and one whose grandfather didn’t speak English until he was in grade school (and he spoke with a thick accent until the day he died), I find this discussion facinating.

    In a nation composed mostly of immigrants (the only “natural citizen” being an aboriginal Native American), I am constantly at a loss when someone uses the term “Illegal Immigrant”. My humble position is that the only illegality committed in the name of immigration is when a person is forced into America as a slave. Unfortunately this does still occur, and it is not just the white-slavery foisted upon some sex-workers.

    The flow of goods across political borders in the current global market is expotentially increasing, facilitated by a none-to-judicious application of new trade laws.

    Combine this with the relative fixity of the laborer, forcing them to choose between abject poverty and a life under an assumed identity in a foreign country, and you’ve hit upon the magic recipe for an immigration “problem”.

    Canadians seem to take a much more enlightened approach. Since they understand that their current citizen population is aging, they see immigrants as the necessary influx of needed labor. Canadians view such immigration as a way to fill the employment ranks of the healthcare and service industries. Applying for, and recieving, citizen status in Canada is much easier than in the US because that government sees an immigrant as a potential citizen – not as a potential criminal.

    As for deporting such workers from US soil – for what reason? For paying sales tax on all the goods they’ve purchased, for paying all the real estate tax they’ve paid through apartment rents, for paying into a social security system from which they will never benefit, for harvesting the vast majority of the fruits and vegetables we eat?

    Sure, deport them. Then present them with a big fat reimbursement check for all the tax money they’ve contributed to a system that treats them as a social pariah.

    By the way, I’m not an American citizen by birth – because I was born in a foreign county, to American parents, and this country’s laws required that parents like mine needed to file a special petition to officially decline their newborn’s citizen status. My young parents were ignorant of this law – not knowing the intricacies of this foreign county’s citizenship laws. I don’t even know how to speak the language of my “home” country, since I left before I was two years old. Sound familiar?

    And my grandfather? He was born a US citizen in a small rural town in Wisconsin, into a household that only spoke Norwegian. He was beaten at school by his teachers if he ever spoke anything but English – uff da.

  20. No for taking jobs, using schools, heathcare services they don’t pay for. car insurance they don’t carry. you think sales tax covers all that.

    At 5% sales tax how many goods would they have to buy just to cover the cost of sending one child to school. that would be over $100,000.00 in goods bought in one year.

    And the very small amouny of SS tax they may get taken out (if they are not paid in cash) would not even come close to covering the cost if they ever made on to the SS system.

    As far as rent. well they increase the rate all pay because they flood the rental market. and over crowd units.

    If you care for them so much you should let some move in with you. and make sure they dont get taken advantage of by the big bad employers.

    and dont worry about the jobs they do. the big bad employer will just have to pay a living wage to get the job done. I work in construction so don’t tell me its jobs We won’t do!

  21. If “alien labor is vital to American lifestyle” then illegal alien labor is vital To Americans that hire illegal aliens, either directly or indirectly.

    It might do us all some good, physically, mentally, emotionally and psychologically to get off our butts and do some labor each day. It did not hurt me. Then I got out of the service, out of college and got a “real” job sitting on my butt at a desk.

    Another solution, beside “the solution is to pay more and get less”, is to get off our butts and do some manual labor each day. Easier said than done.

    It is not too hard to hire illegals to work in Detroit! Go there and see.

    Not an immigration problem?

    Control the the borders, language and culture.

    Yes, we have an employer and an economic problem.

    I made 10 cents an hour when I was 10 years old chopping corn, thistles and sunflowers out of beans and chopping thistles and sunflowers out of corn.

    The employer may withhold both parts of the social security taxes but that doesn’t mean that the employer sends those taxes to the social security administration. Guess who benefits and who doesn’t. Not the worker and not anyone collecting social security benefits.

    280+million vs 11+ million = 269+million

  22. Maybe we should fix this first. This is from the first page of government guidelines for small business on checking for Social Security numbers.

    –You may not verify someone’s name and Social Security number until after you have offered him or her a job.

    –Social Security will review usage of SSNVS to ensure that employers are using it for the proper purposes.

    Do not use SSNVS to take punitive action against an employee whose name and Social Security number do not match Social Security’s records.
    –A mismatch does not imply that the employer or the employee intentionally provided incorrect information.

    –A mismatch does not make any statement about an employee’s immigration status and is not a basis, in and of itself, for taking any adverse action against an employee. Doing so could subject you to anti-discrimination or labor law sanctions.

    Third party use of SSNVS is strictly limited to organizations that contract with employers to either handle the wage reporting responsibilities or perform an administrative function directly related to annual wage reporting responsibilities of hired employees.

    It is not proper to use SSNVS for non-wage reporting purposes, such as identity, credit checks, mortgage applications, etc.

  23. curious george
    Apr 17, 2006, 6:29 pm

    Ah well, such a loaded subject!

    My best response to “i” is to correct his/her assumption, “If you care for them so much you should let some move in with you. and make sure they dont get taken advantage of by the big bad employers.”, in that I have taken great measures (and yes, made sacrifices in my personal & professional life) to protect the rights of people on US soil.

    Regarding i’s concern related to immigrants driving up the rental market costs, well since the Boise area has been experiencing an historically high apartment vacancy rate (with corresponding low rents – compared to the home ownership market), and since i feels that immigrants in the Boise area are everywhere – there’s only one conclusion that we can reach. Immigrants (documented or otherwise) are having a net positive impact on the local housing market.

    And, i is right on target concerning the illegal behavior of employers who fail to withhold taxes from employees’ pay – paying cash under the table, sub rasa.

    But since very few businesses/politicians/farmers could survive a crack down on such employer misbehavior – I suspect that our economy is far more reliant on low-wage earners than we will admit (especially those who aren’t protected from labor laws, and who fear involving the police when they are mistreatmented).

    Undocumented workers are not the problem, their presence is only the symtom of a deeper social/economic disease. Unfortunately, this disease has no name and can only be described by circumscribing its general sentiment, it is our (and I include myself) inability to live up to our own ideals regarding the kindness with which we should treat our fellow human beings.

  24. Yes loaded. The appartment rental market has got high vacancy for two reasons. The thirty year low in mortgage rates for home buyers has people buying in short cycles. In other words not renting for long periods. And those same rates apply to the building of appartments. thousand of units have been built in recent years. Big appartments are built for the long term investment, not for the short return. I’m thinking most that have $10 to $20 million to build them might know a thing or two.

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