A social engineering project is underway for Boise’s downtown in the form of a welfare housing project atop the trendy Piper Pub and Grill at 8th and Main.
It is complicated bunch of tax credits and public financing, but the bottom line is people who can’t afford to pay market rates for rent are slated to occupy 57 of the 81 units. Maybe city hall staffers can live there and walk to work–that way they won’t need to be paid very much since they won’t need cars either.
The Idaho Statesman newspaper reported in the Saturday edition that an 81 unit complex WILL be built, WILL be financed, WILL cater to low income tenants. In typical Statesman fashion the project is reported as a done deal. That is far from true.
We understand from City Hall sources the mainstream media is just a victim of an enthusiastic press release and in TRUTH the project still has to undergo approval of the planning and zoning commission, building inspectors, design-review, fire department and the Boise City Council.
The GUARDIAN received this impassioned plea from a reader which we thought was worth sharing.
“How about one of your great commentaries on infill and Boise’s penchant for ugly buildings. Today’s Statesman had an article about building 6 more stories on top of the Piper Pub parking garage. This structure will obliterate one of the cherished (and highly published) views of the city — The capitol building standing regal amongst the ugly brown phallic symbols downtown. It is one of the few buildings down there with any true design. Not to mention the fact that it has great meaning as one of the few identifiable symbols of this great state.
The photo on your masthead is taken from Capitol Blvd., But by far the most often seen (and beautiful) view of the city is taken from further west. I think the proposal is a total waste of Boise’s unique identity and charm. They are quickly doing away with that. The view down Capitol
Boulevard is gone — So let’s foul it up from all other perspectives as well!?
Someday in the future I’ll be telling my grandchildren. “Somewhere down there is the Captiol building. But you can’t see it now, my dears It’s buried behind all that
monolithic brown junk (crap) they call the “beautiful Boise skyline”
At this rate Boise is becoming a taste-less, bland, wanna-be and burying what gives our city true class and unique character.
And dang it — we just need more downtown housing!!! We’ll all want to live there! (according to the city’s rigged up survey)
Geesh, give me a break — It’ll be too ugly to look at let alone live there! Is the value derived from buidling apartments on that location really worth what we ALL will lose?”
It is hard to beat a “commentary” from the heart.
UPDATE
One of our informed and intelligent readers sent a terse comment “Pruitt-Igoe comes to Boise.” We did an internet search and were startled to find a piece written by a Harvard guy with the sad history of a St. Louis project which has startling similarities with Boise’s downtown efforts. It was 50 years ago, but still applies today.
Check out this link for historic details on how not to run our city.
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Dec 5, 2005, 4:12 pm
I was born and raised in Boise and fondly remember the old view of Boise looking from the Depot down Capital Blvd. The Capitol building seemed majestic & beautiful. I loved taking pictures from that location. Now, I don’t even bother trying to photograph Boise from that old viewpoint .. the photo just becomes an advertisement for banks and hotels. I am afraid we have gone too far to ever get our great skyline back. I certainly hope this bad idea does not win the approval of Planning & Zoning but, honestly, I haven’t much faith in the city’s P&Z department. I’d really love it if someone from P&Z would explain their seemingly twisted logic to all us Boise Guardian readers.
Dec 5, 2005, 11:35 pm
I worked in downtown Boise for most of the last 30 years and the big buildings just seemed to creep in when I wasn’t looking. I have no children in this state or grandchildren either so there is no one in my family to mourn the loss of a great little town. This is redevelopment – which everyone seemed to want in the 70’s and 80’s. 8th Street Marketplace was newly remodeled – now it has been remodeled again and renamed “BoDo” – isn’t that cute? Don’t they call this “Smart Growth”? Smart for whom? I can’t name a single “new” building that I think is attractive. However I do have a family member who lives back East who thinks downtown Boise has become quite charming, so who knows. Perhaps some of are just getting old and cranky.
Dec 6, 2005, 12:14 am
“A social engineering project is underway for Boise’s downtown in the form of a welfare housing project ”
Pruitt-Igoe comes to Boise?
Dec 6, 2005, 8:52 am
Sorry to be such a contrarian-social engineer, but I like the idea of more affordable housing downtown. I also applaud the idea of people being able to live where they don’t need cars *by choice,* not because they can’t afford one.
I’m 44. Half a lifetime ago, had I been here instead of Ohio, I definitely would have chosen to live in downtown Boise. I suspect that 20 years from now, I may want to give up house-and-yard work and live there, too.
I, too, am sad about losing the view down Capitol Boulevard from the Depot, but Boise is no longer a small town. I find downtown to be a vibrant, fun place, filled with thriving stores and restaurants, great public art, youthful energy from the Boise High and BSU students, and the beautiful parks and river. Sure, downtown has problems, but it’s a helluva lot more alive and interesting than the mall and the Meridian-Eagle sprawl.
Dec 6, 2005, 9:39 am
Folks, the Battle for the Capitol Skyline View was over in the late 50s.
I can remember visiting the Depot as a kid when the Capitol was the tallest building in Idaho. (The only one that came close was the Hotel Boise, which looked a bit like a miniature Empire State Building, off to the left.)
Then along came Bank of Idaho, with their lofty plans to build their “skyscraper” at Capitol Blvd. and Idaho Streets. The new tallest building in Idaho!
There was a massive outcry at the time. The view of the Capitol had value to the community. The Bank reassured the protesters (and more importantly, the “city fathers”) that their lovely building would add to the view, not detract from it. (And in reality, an argument can be made for their right to develop the property they own as they see fit.)
Anyway, the bank went up. And the rest is history. That cleared the way for the Idaho First National Bank, and ultimately the “Eggo Hotel,” arguably the ugliest building in Idaho.
It’s a joke to complain about some little peephole view of the Capitol, that will be ruint by up-building the Piper Pub. The lot was cast. The party’s over – go on home, people.
Dec 6, 2005, 11:51 am
I love how the terms “affordable” and “Low income” are now interchangeable. One person lauds the developers for placing affordable housing downtown. Then someone else equates the project to Pruitt-Igoe (which really is forseeable with this). It does seem to me that low income housing (87) units atop the Piper Pub in incongruous with the area. I’m all for providing housing to those who can’t afford market rent, but something about this sounds wrong. I, like Hulme think the view of the capitol is a moot point. It is dwarfed now until it is hardly noticable unless you are coming straight upon it. I expect the Derrs and others who paid premium prices to live in penthouses nearby will have something to say about 87 families moving in next door. Anytime you put that many units of low income housing together there are bound to be issues.
Dec 7, 2005, 8:45 am
Speaking of low income housing… I’m waiting with baited breath for the impending announcement about where the Homeless Tent City will be erected. (Announcement postponed because they still have to notify the neighbors? That’s a bit like the identity of the deceased being withheld until the next-of-kin are notified, isn’t it?)
I’d suggest the porch out front of City Hall. There’s probably room out there for a dozen or 20 tents. And they’d be very close to additional city services, and Mayor Bieter could check on ’em frequently and make sure they’re OK.
Dec 7, 2005, 9:29 pm
While reading about this issue again I got a picture in my mind of the low income people coming downstairs for a pitcher of expensive beer and the opportunity to rub elbows with the usual patrons of the Piper Pub. Somehow I just can’t see that working out…for all our ideas of equality, people do seem to gravitate towards their own tribes, classes, national identities, etc.
But at least those folks won’t be getting DUI’s getting home. 😉
Dec 8, 2005, 11:18 am
Let’s put a large tent in the front yard of every City Council person – I think that would quailfy as INFILL. We’ll see how NIMBY they get.
Dec 8, 2005, 3:49 pm
With all this rhetoric, I see some thing missing here! I don’t think right downtown is the place for low-income housing. If you are truly low income people , how could you afford to shop or frequent the restaurants that are downtown? They are mostly upper class and to our retired pocket-books too expensive . They would have to go at least as far as Winco, and would have to have cars or maybe steal the shopping carts and leave them along the street , like happens in other low income developments.The P&Z needs to dis-connect from their buddy-developers on this project!
Dec 8, 2005, 4:28 pm
Treva, A person doesn’t have to drive to get a DUI in Boise. I was riding shotgun, the driver crashed, ran, I was trapped by the dash and air bag and my seat/shoulder belt, I was extracated, taken to the ER, refused a field sobriety test since I was broken up physically and on heavy meds, arrested, charged with DUI and spent a lot of money and time to have a judge overturn it. If they can’t get you one way, they will get you another. I hadn’t had alcohol in 20 years before that but am thinking about starting again.
Dec 8, 2005, 10:23 pm
Hey, Jack – what a depressing story. But I understand. One of my brothers who does not drive and has never owned a car was arrested here in good old friendly Boise for Walking Under the Influence. Did anyone ever hear about WUI? I know he ever endangered anyone but he has moved away from here and has nothing good to say about Boise or Idaho. I have lived here for many years but would not encourage anyone I care about to move here. There seems to be a culture of intimidation. I have never even had a traffic ticket but I have the feeling that the Boise police are overly excitable for reasons that I won’t go into because it would take a lot of space. The sheriff’s department seems more in control and concerned about their constituents. I also feel that the politicians are out of control – vote for term limits – they reinstate their “rights” to run forever. Vote down a bond for a building – they build it anyway. Try to get anyone but a Repub in office? Forget it. It is very depressing – if I were younger I think I would move to Canada. Well, have a nice day.
Dec 9, 2005, 3:05 pm
Downtown Boise needs affordable housing.
I support the project and I applaud those who are involved in the development.
Ever notice the massive tax subsidies for those who choose to live in sprawling suburban housing developments?
Ever add up the costs of extending sewer lines, roads, water, and other infrastructure to all of these far-flung housing developments located away from the Treasure Valley city centers?
Pseudo-conservatives don’t seem to complain quite as much about that kind of subsidy even though it has been going on for years and years.
And when did “density” get such a bad name?
Density is what makes light rail in Europe and Japan affordable.
And as Portland, Oregon has discovered, light rail is a job magnet.
Contrary to the belief of some, public transit in Boise is used heavily by well-paid professionals.
I know Boise civil engineers who ride the bus to work and back EVERY DAY.
These are professional people who know how to save money.
They know how to CONSERVE.
They actually live a conservative lifestyle (instead of talking about it).
I believe true conservatives, therefore, should support public transit and not oppose it.
Guess what is worse than the “social engineering” that Idaho’s pseudo-conservatives complain about?
I would suggest the answer is “anti-social engineering.”
And that’s what the pseudo-conservatives of Boise — and Idaho — have a difficult time defending.
Many of them fail to criticize the ANTI-SOCIAL ENGINEERING policies that have been in place for decades at the local, state and federal government levels.
Meanwhile, take a look at Boise’s air quality:
http://www.cityofboise.org/public_works/services/air_quality/index.aspx?id=air_quality_visibility
If Boise’s pseudo-conservatives were really worried about the view of the capitol, they’d be more vocal about what’s happening to our air.
If we don’t get our collective act together soon, we won’t be able to see our hands in front of our own faces.
We’ll be inserting quarters into filter mask vending machines on Capitol Boulevard.
Ever wonder why there’s so little in the TV news media about the effects of vehicle exhaust in the Treasure Valley?
I got it straight from the former director of advertising sales at KTVB-TV…
Commercials from vehicle ads — when I asked about this in the ’90s — accounted for almost HALF (50%) of KTVB-TV’s revenues.
Now let’s add the $100 BILLION in subsidies we’ve given to the private sector commercial broadcasters…
http://tinyurl.com/yxwfks
…and we begin to see why the corporations that own our local TV stations are able to earn those astounding 40% to 60% profit margins, as confirmed by the State of the News Media page here:
http://www.stateofthemedia.com/2005/narrative_localtv_economics.asp?cat=4&media=6
I used to be one of the reporters who worked at KTVB-TV and — at least once — I was not allowed to publish the names of local car dealerships who got caught by the Idaho Attorney General.
The AG forced these dealerships to sign “voluntary assurance of compliance” documents promising they would cease business practices that were considered by the AG to be illegal.
If the dealerships refused to sign, they faced criminal prosecution.
My photographer and I recorded video of several of the car dealerships mentioned in the news release — in preparation for a news report we hoped to air later that evening.
As we were taping, one of the Boise car dealership managers shouted at us and ordered us to stop taping and warned us that if we persisted he would call our bosses, cancel the ads, and “have our a _ _ e s.”
After I returned to the station, sure enough, KTVB-TV’s sales manager was sitting in the office with the news director.
The news director came out of the office and instructed me “not to mention the names” of the car dealerships mentioned in the AG’s news release.
Censored in Boise once again!
(I am convinced it happens in Boise and many other American cities on a routine basis.)
After years of watching the mutilation of Idaho journalism by corporate and business interests, I understood why many journalists leave for other careers.
Ever watch the recent documentary, THE CORPORATION?
http://www.thecorporation.com
It contains a segment revealing that censorship is common in America’s news industry.
I would suggest that Boise and many other Mountain West cities have been the victims of ANTI-SOCIAL ENGINEERING for about the last four decades, but you’ll rarely see any coverage about it on the corporate-owned local TV news.
I support Dave’s expression of opinion, but I suspect his criticism of the downtown housing project is a reactionary red herring.
In fact, I suspect it may even deflect attention from other, far more grim realities about how our public dollars are being wasted in Idaho and throughout America.
Cordially,
Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net
Dec 9, 2005, 5:09 pm
Jerry Jones, You are long winded. Jack
Dec 10, 2005, 8:04 pm
Jerry J – your commnets would be great IF the facts were correct – and they are not! There are no subsidies for suburban homeowners and the buses are virtually empty and HEAVILY subsidized – two goofs right there. If you are a great reporter then post the facts here and share the documentation with the Guardian.
There are a few (and I mean few) ok reporters in town but most just report the press releases they are sent by government flacks. Then they go to work as flacks as soon as they can get a job. The editors at the Daily Statesman clearly have agendas and censor editorials from readers EVERY DAY and think nothing of it!!
If we had even a few doing as much digging as the Guardian MAYBE we could actually hold our officials accountable. They openly tells us that they could care less about getting sued or about getting voted out of office because they all belong to the same little club and they protect each other – they simply don’t care and the media cares even less about digging to get the facts – sorta like the facts you state.
Dec 11, 2005, 2:54 pm
FACT 1. Please read “THE COST OF SPRAWL” here:
http://tinyurl.com/ycqyj5
This is a report published by the Bank of America and I think it might change your mind about whether or not subsidies are associated with suburban sprawl.
FACT 2. The bus system in the Boise metro area lacks adequate funding as explained here:
http://tinyurl.com/yaehuo
“When voters approved the formation of a regional public transportation authority, the new Idaho Code did not provide a funding source to pay for services.”
Boise’s bus system does have a significant ridership, currently, but it could be improved dramatically if enough funding were to be made available to increase service FREQUENCY to a point where a person could hop on a bus every fifteen (15) minutes instead of the current practice of making customers wait for long periods of time between rides.
Believe it or not, I’ve seen better bus service in Third World countries.
In La Paz, Bolivia — in South America — the buses arrive every 15 minutes at well-marked stops located everywhere in the city and the result is a surprisingly efficient system with very high ridership.
You also seem to misunderstand my remarks about local news.
I never suggested that local reporters don’t want to do real journalism.
Most local reporters do want to do authentic journalism and I have sympathy for their dilemma because I’ve been in their shoes.
I would suggest my 11+ years of professional experience in Idaho TV news gives me some perspectives about the strengths and weaknesses of the system.
I wonder if you have any such experience at all.
To survive, low-paid local Idaho TV journalists must comply with the mandates of CORPORATE MANAGERS that have no special allegiance or loyalty to Idaho or Boise.
Those awesome 40% – 60% local TV station profit margins, made possible by massive subsidies to broadcasters, do not go to the worker-bee employees of local TV stations, I can assure you.
Those profits benefit shareholders sitting in plush offices in cities such as New York, Dallas, Seattle, etc.
In addition, you don’t seem to understand why local TV newscasts look the same in virtually every city in America.
Ever hear of TV NEWS CONSULTANTS?
To find out more, please read this excellent Kent State University article:
http://www.personal.kent.edu/~glhanson/readings/tv%20news/bglobe.htm
Yes, there have been some good local journalists.
But notice how often they leave for other careers.
Why do you suppose this is true?
Cordially,
Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net
Dec 11, 2005, 3:33 pm
All Govt. buildings with their 200 yr. style tend to remind me that they are architectural monstrosities that house a govt. that stopped representing the People some time ago. It’s ironic that most of those buildings now towering over them are Banks, our new gods and governments.
Dec 11, 2005, 10:17 pm
Jerry –
The studies you site are created by those who benefit from the stuies and they simply support their agendas – and can be debunked by other “studies” – just depends how much you pay to get the data you want.
I too have worked in the TV media industry – in Boise in fact.
The bus system simply does not support itself today. That is a fact – even proven by the study you sight.
The only thing that will stop sprawl is when the City Council gets out of the pockets of the developers and does not approve another subdivision – but that will never happen – especially when you look at who contributes to their races. Bill Clark does not get the “favors” he gets on his projects just because he has nice handwritting on his applications. Funny – I do not see a single reporter digging into this story.
Dec 12, 2005, 11:50 am
The low income housing re-development idea is a total ruse. The developers get low interest government backed loans to buld these projects, provide cheap rents for a minimum of time,2-3 years, then kick out the tennants,re-model and it becomes high rent housing. Who cares about views anyway. Usually the view sucks because of the inversions. Wake up, Idaho is “for sale”. The Ada County Commissoners are really the Ada County Welcome Wagon in disguise.
Dec 14, 2005, 7:53 am
The project is probably not going to happen. The initial cost estimate was much higher than anticipated. Will you cover the Avimor hearing tonight at the Ada county courthouse? Cheers, Joe