A good wash down by the cities finest might have cleaned up some of the folks from the bar. It would have at least sobered them up a little. If the drunks from the bars had not been out of line acting as a mob the officers would never had to be there in the first place.

“If the drunks from the bars had not been out of line acting as a mob the officers would never had to be there in the first place.”

Actually, the cops were there because someone was stabbed… not because a mob somehow magically appeared out of thin air.

Editor note–see comment above from the police union president.

Boise Police using “heavy-handed tactics”? I’m shocked to hear that. It’s been months (maybe even a couple of years) since they killed someone needlessly. I thought their war against 20-somethings was over.

More freedom, less control.

“There is an almost complete breakdown in respect for the police department.”

And why is that?

In a particular experience of mine a few years ago with the BPD and their handmaiden the so called “judicial system,” I got screwed. Therefore I have little respect. Do I stay out of their way and obey their orders? Hell yeah, I’m not completely stupid.

What’s more, cops and prosecutors can and do lie! Supreme Court said it’s perfectly legal a few years ago. I can’t cite the case, maybe someone else can. I dunno about anyone else, but I have little respect for liars.

Was this incident the same night as the big “Ultimate Fighting Challenge” at the US Bank Center or Qwest Arena or whatever we are calling it these days? See, I think common sense dictates that hitting the bars, after an event where men get paid to pummel each other bloody, is probably looking for trouble. I think the same about the BSU/Idaho football game, and a myriad of other events where some people are just more apt to overdrink, get lippy and make problems.

I personally don’t think UFC or other “street fight” type events are the healthiest entertainment to bring downtown, but I’m old and tired, so what do I know.

A couple observations. HH, I mostly agree but acknowledge there are circumstances where police have more knowledge of the “big picture” on a given situation and they just don’t have the time or resources to explain why their actions are reasonable to imbibing pissed off partiers. At that point people just have to accept that they are in charge and trust that they have our best interests at heart. We’ll sort it out later.

But by the same token the police contend that we should just “respect” their decisions and commands. While I teach my children to obey police commands, I also teach them that respect is earned not commanded. In reviewing judgment calls by our police in the past ten years I’m not always sure they deserve the respect that they are so eager to command.

Now Guardian we all agree that the image of people getting pummelled by high powered water hoses is a powerful one from the early sixties in the civil rights movement but I sincerely doubt that a guy who missed last call is going to generate the same sympathy as a person engaged in civil disobedience to fight for the rights of citizenship. Also the tactic would likely backfire on a hot July night in downtown Boise. The crowd wouldn’t be likely to disperse at all. But it is truly disturbing that a command officer was groping for tactics not found in the playbook.

I was working at the Qwest Arena for the Extreme Fighting. I think 75% (+ or – 5% based on a completely unscientific poll) of those in attendance were intoxicated to one degree or another when they left. The same 75% thought THEY were ultimate fighters (just an observation based on the way they were strutting around, staring each other down, and getting into fights in the Arena). It doesn’t surprise me that this spilled over into the streets downtown.

I would agree with most of the posts that washing down citizens with high pressure hoses is not the greatest idea. BUT, I actually applaud the effort to think outside the box to try and diffuse a potentially explosive situation. The process worked – ideas were bounced around and a good option was chosen. Most current process improvement or problem solving methods encourage just that; list ALL potential solutions and then narrow the solution down to the best one based on input from the involved stakeholders. Had the officers done nothing, the media would crucify them. If the police opened fire with beanbags or other less-lethal options, again – crucifixtion. And dare I say… Advance a crowd in a skirmish line and actually USE PR24’s (night sticks) on people – the videos would be all over the news in a heartbeat. Talk about the proverbial ‘rock and a hard place’.

So… all of you Monday morning Police Commanders, tell me this: How would YOU disperse a crowd of drunks who are refusing to leave – while securing a stabbing victim and looking for 2 armed subjects? (and don’t say “ask them politely” because they were and it didn’t work – remember now… THEY’RE DRUNK and don’t want to listen to the Police because ‘they know better’) Let’s hear the suggestions 🙂

Side note: I don’t get this Extreme fighting — two guys get in the ring, throw a punch or two, then fall to the floor & wrestle for position for the next 10 minutes until the fight’s done. BORING.

EDITOR NOTE–Sounds like the booze peddlers at Quest arena and elsewhere need to be cracked down upon. It is illegal to serve someone who is intoxicated or “APPARENTLY INTOXICATED.” Do police allow intoxication inside the arena which will “spill over into the streets?”

Wow TnT, how’s the weather in your world? It may not be “randum”, but I can assure you they don’t always use the force “nessary to deal with the situation”.

Sisyphus doesn’t think “a guy who missed last call is going to generate the same sympathy as a person engaged in civil disobedience to fight for the rights of citizenship.”
What if that person who missed last call is blown off his feet by a powerful water hose, then cracks his skull on the sidewalk and dies.

“We don’t do that, so we said no.” I believe that the intent of the officer was to use a non lethal tool to disperse the crowd with little or no injury. I am positive that the hose would not have been used at full pressure. Unlike the time the “sacred” BFD used their hose to blow down a violent subject from on top of the Jack in the Box on Orchard a few winters ago. Did you forget about that Chief Hanneman??? We didn’t….

Mojo, it seems fairly obvious that while one can’t forsee when a problem will occur in a bar, when one does occur, a prudent person gets the hell out of there. If you decide to stand on the sidewalk and “discuss” the proper action with the police, then getting blown over by a firehose is the least of your worries. (can you say bail money?)By the way, the comment about the 911 call was just plain dumb! You are way too intelligent for that.

Hey Rod, it’s not just 20-somethings they don’t like. Cops have a low opinion of everybody except those who have power over them.

Anyway, I expect this weekend might see an extra large crowd downtown, just to see if something will happen. And the cops will be expecting trouble, too. Funny things happen in crowds that expect trouble.

Seems everyone has missed the boat with the, “We don’t do that” quote, including this blog’s author.

In emergency response training there is only ONE group who is in charge of security and crowd control – the police. When someone calls 911, no matter what the problem, a police officer is sent to the scene. Why? Because even if it is a fire, crowd control may be needed.

Usually, the police car drives by or stays nearby because in these suburban areas they aren’t needed much. However, in some inner cities the police have been very much needed to insure the safety of paramedics and firefighters just so they can do their job.

So the ‘We don’t do that” probably meant “We don’t work crowd control.” A firefighter’s job is to quelch fires and possibly offer emergency first aid, if they are also trained paramedics, but that is it. One day the BPD may own fire hoses themselves, in which case, we might see that tactic of crowd control used again.

Who cares where the story came from. Guardian stated “…the daily paper quoted spokeswoman…” How much more credit did you need? That, to those of us with enough snap to pick up on it means “the Statesman had the story before I did” or at least “before I posted it”. When was the last time the Statesman gave credit to the Guardian for getting the scoop on them? Yeah, I think not.

“Stealing” is a pretty big word for someone who, perhaps, doesn’t have his own story straight. EVEN IF (and that may not be the case here) Guardian picked the story up from the Statesman, I think “stealing” would be an inflammatory and misdirected term, since once it’s published it’s impossible to steal it. As for “it takes resources to dig up and disseminate information…”. It surely does…and perhaps Guardian (the person, not the forum) is better connected than many “daily” “content providers”. Just maybe, the Guardian stands as such a “resource”. I don’t expect everyone involved in this little bit of business to come forward and candidly explain who knew what and when, and who told whom and when, or who wrote what and when. I do think someone who claims to be a “content provider” should be beyond such sensitive proclivities.

Is there any reason for not using fire hoses, other than the specter of 1960s civil rights days in Birmingham, Alabama?

If fire hoses are to be banned for emotional reasons like these, that’s perfectly fine. I just want to know all the reasons against this practice. Really, is it any more or less risky than pepper spray?

EDITOR NOTE–The spector of Birmingham civil rights protests should be enough. The real gist of this posting was far from the merits of one spray over another. The issue as the GUARDIAN saw it was a cop making a private call to the fire station (not via dispatch) asking about fire hoses when official police spokesman adamently denied that fire hoses would ever be used and a captain or deputy chief was quoted as saying he would never authorize use of fire hoses.

Why the heck did the cop even check with fire and why didn’t he go through the chain of command? THAT is the issue. Imagine if fire department had honored the request. Would police brass hang the lieutenant or sergeant out to dry? (sorry, couldn’t resist that)