County
A Third Side to C. College
April 2, 2007 
BY AN INSIDER
As an employee of TVCC in Ontario (and an Idaho taxpayer), I obviously cannot comment publicly about the proposed election, but think there are several points being glossed over in the discussion about a community college district for Canyon and Ada county.
1. “Local control” is vastly overrated. Oregon community colleges are locally controlled by elected boards, but in actuality, the real centers of decision-making are held in two locations – the school administrators, and the state legislature. If the administrators are not responsive to local needs, there’s precious little an elected board can do to overcome that. Likewise, if the state legislative funding priorities favor K-12 or University systems (as they do in Oregon), the community colleges will suffer and fail to meet the very goals the local district might hope to achieve. Idaho’s system of funding its existing 2-year schools is a little different than Oregon’s, but still is similar enough to have the same challenges.
2. The overriding issue I have with the current proposed election is that $4 million dollars is wildly insufficient to operate a community college of any size on, let alone start one. Much has been made of BSU’s seeming generosity to “allow” the community college to use or absorb the Idaho Center location – make no mistake, BSU is planning and working to get paid for this transfer. They have stated they expect to compensated for the “lost” revenue seen when students migrate from their institution to the proposed cheaper classes at the community college. That compensation will come from, where?
3. The numbers don’t add up. When asked by the Albertson Foundation for a proposal to start a community college, TVCC proposed an $18 million startup cost. Boise State’s internal proposal for spinning off and establishing a community college was a $71 million, and while that was surely larded with a lot of wishlists, it’s still more consistent with the real costs of establishing a comprehensive community college than $4 million. The proposed levy that voters are being asked to vote on is either poorly researched (unlikely), or being lowballed to make it more palatable to voters. Either option should raise some significant concerns for voters.
There’s a great deal of territorialism at play in this issue. CSI and NIC are uneasy about seeing anything statewide be implemented for fear of losing control. BSU wants to get free of the Seland College (its expensive and non-glamourous vo-tech programs), and focus on becoming a metropolitan research university, but wants to get paid at the same time. TVCC wants to continue as a viable institution in Ontario (and more than half of our students are from Idaho, primarily the Treasure Valley), so is apprehensive about what might come. It’s easy for all of the fiefdoms to dig in and protect what they think they own.
However. And this is the crucial piece I come back to as an educator – educational access of all kinds is vital to the health of a community and society. I’m unconvinced that the current proposal being voted on is adequate (or truthful), but I remain convinced that the need for community college services in the area is real. Historically, community colleges have been tax-supported in order to be affordable for students. Idaho has resisted created a state-supported community college system, which leaves only a local property-tax-supported model. It’s a catch-22 – vote for a bad initial proposal and then work to fix it, or continue without any solution until a better plan comes along? Personally, I’d opt to vote for the district, but I’d be vigilant afterward that the money wasn’t wasted…
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Comments & Discussion
Comments are closed for this post.
Apr 2, 2007, 9:48 am
Dosesn’t sound like something I would vote for!
Apr 2, 2007, 11:28 am
When has “vote for a bad initial proposal and then work to fix it” ever worked?
Apr 2, 2007, 1:30 pm
The campaign is estimating $4 million dollars for the property tax between Ada and Canyon counties. A very small amount for the amount of tax payers between the two counties! The newly created community college district would have a number of funding streams to ensure the continued success including $5 million secured by Governor Otter, tuition from students, professional technical (federal funds), private sector funds, etc. Here is the proven budget breakdown that College of Southern Idaho is using:
State General Fund $9.9 M
Tuition $6.3 M
Technical Funds (federal) $5.3 M
County Property Tax $3.4 M
Other $1.6 M
Liquor Funds $1.6 M
TOTAL $28.2 M
As you can see the college can run at a minimal cost to property owners. The community college would use existing facilities so there is no need to build new buildings. Some of these funds are already there but because there is no district are being used else ware.
Also, here are some figures from the Boise State proposal regarding the proposed budget for the community college:
1. $5.7 million in year one increasing to $8.7 million in year three in tuition revenue transferred from Boise State University to the College of Western Idaho
2. Over $7 million of State professional-technical appropriated funds transferred from Boise State University to the College of Western Idaho annually to support professional technical education.
3. $4 million in Federal funds transferred per year to the College of Western Idaho to support Adult Education
4. An estimated unfunded need of nearly $10 million over a three year timeframe to support lower division instructional programs.
Apr 2, 2007, 2:28 pm
At least Insider is honest with her/his assessment. Considering the rate that good, or even better proposals move through the legislature (or not), I’d be inclined to feel the same way. Waiting for perfection doesn’t have a great track record of success either. And it’s clear that, without radical turnover, the legislature will not be responsive to the need for community based education.
Surely, BSU and other existing entities have their own interests at stake. That’s the way things work. Certainly sounds like few people that post here are motivated by altruism alone (if at all). In this case, I’d rather pay a little more for something worthwhile with flaws, and get the system started rather than wait for the next and possibly improved attempt.
Apr 2, 2007, 7:28 pm
Time for taxpayer funded elections
Let me just say it is apparent the time for tax payer funded election is long over due. I know what you’re thinking “my taxes are too high now” The reason you’re taxes are too high is our Politicians are for sale to the highest bidder i.e.: Phiser, GE, Ford, and GM you get the point.
Republicans say “Money is Free Speech” I say Bull S**t. If each politician received 10,000 dollars of tax payer money and 5 free TV or radio spots per election, for the first time in our history the (crooks) Politicians would work for us “WE THE PEPOLE” and not forPHISER, GE, FORD, GM, EXXON, you get the point. This system works in Europe.
If anyone reading this thinks the Politicians are working for us “WE THE PEPOLE” and not their corporate masters, you’re drinking the Kool Aid and need to wake up.
Apr 2, 2007, 10:50 pm
Insider’s figure of $71 Million seems a lot more realistic to me than any of the other figures I’ve heard. If this college is to be a comprehensive two-year academic program plus a “full-service” Vo-Tek program, it sure as heck has to cost a lot more than any of the other figures I’ve seen or heard bandied about.
When I read / hear about BSU’s “contribution” it is stated that some the LAND at the West BSU campus would be available. Not the existing or the proposed building(s), which, presumably, would continue to house BSU operated classes / programs.
And, what of the BSU Canyon County Center? What is to become of it and the programs housed there.
I keep hearing questions and not answers. Again, I want to vote in favor of increased educational opportunity, but I want to know more precisely what I am casting my vote for.
Is it too much to ask for clarity of intention and have any / all plans and planning explained AHEAD of the election? Or, is the pig to be revealed after the poke has been approved?
And, what does BSU “get” for “giving up” the Vo-Tek and a portion of its two-year academic program(s). I doubt that altruism is coursing through the veins of the BSU Administrators. Answers, I feel the need for plain talk answers!
Grumpy and curious.
Apr 3, 2007, 3:23 am
I personally would like to see the money used to bring a full medical school to Idaho, instead of a community college. That would benefit the local economy, and both rural and treasure valley residents.
Apr 3, 2007, 8:21 am
Grumpy has the handle on this one. I can’t help but believe we aren’t being made aware of the entire plan. It smacks of “let’s go in on a shoestring, get it sold to the people and then come back in two or three years and let them know what it is really going to cost” .
I doubt that the use of existing facilities will continue. I doubt that BSU will just “give up” their stake to be nice guys and good citizens, I really doubt we are being told the truth about the true start-up costs. The additional education capabilities of the valley will surely benefit the valley as a whole, but why do I have this familiar “here we go again” feeling?
Apr 3, 2007, 11:03 am
I would seriously doubt that any comments coming from an insider of TVCC would be unbiased. TVCC attempted to convince the Albertson’s Foundation, the State and others that they should run the new community college. They were sent packing and have been licking their wounds ever since.
EDITOR–No claim of being unbiased! He makes a great point that the proposal TVCC made is much more expensive that what the advocates are claiming.
Apr 9, 2007, 6:22 pm
Making education more accessible and affordable to all is one of the healthiest and most profitable paths any community can take. At the same time I would like to see BSU have it’s own on-line law school and medical school perhaps using the already established expertise of the Univ. of Idaho. How to pay for those computerized courses and re-imburse the U of I?
Why the biggest cash-cow at BSU-The profits coming from our football hero’s should be devoted to EDUCATION not to luxurious suites added to an already rampant stadium for the ” Boise would-be elite fan club.” EDUCATION IS THE CROWNING ACHIEVMENT OF HUMANITY helping us eliminate everything from poverty to intolerance .
Community Colleges are a first step towards this goal while more access to legal and medical degrees at BSU would give it national attention for it’s academic prospects.
Apr 11, 2007, 7:26 pm
I’m totally with what 2.N.R. said.
The way so many initiatives involving taxpayers are done in this area, with no accountability, pettifogging, and unclear legal (or any kind of) language, is astounding. No wonder people don’t want to commit to such wonders.
We can do without a community college until and unless some agency gets a clear-cut proposal on the table with a clear-cut (no pettifogging) statement of what it will cost us.
My granddaughter is in college at ISU, she has about three jobs to pay for her costs, is having the time of her life discovering her future employment goals (outdoor education) and making bucks while doing it, and is doing it without benefit of a community college.
Others can do the same at BSU or at ISU. She will finally graduate a bit later than others, but that doesn’t bother her–or me.
Apr 14, 2007, 7:03 pm
Today I received mail from the “Community College Yes.” On the bottom it give a link to a .com. That indicates to me that this is not an organization but a commercial enterprise.
Also attached to this mail were 2 requests for Absent Elector’s Ballots. One that was filled out with my name, address and one that was blank. This mail was printed on very nice card stock with slick printing.
I am including in this post a link to the Secretary of State Office, so if you would like to vote no on this issue you can request your own absentee ballot and save the $1.25 spent on the above mentioned mailing (I would suggest that you donate the money saved to the college scholarship of your choice.) http://www.idahovotes.gov/VoterReg/absentee.pdf
Apr 27, 2007, 8:16 am
I have tried to keep my criticism of this posting to myself, but since you bring it up again….I appreciatte the author’s position that they can not comment publicly on the proposal, so I would like to thank them for choosing this public forum to publicly comment.