Education

Buying Votes For C. College

GUARDIAN sources tell us more than 10,000 Ada County residents have already applied for absentee ballots in the single issue Community College election.

The Community College vote on May 22 has us concerned because there is just too much money being tossed at this thing by too many well to do people in the big business community. We don’t oppose the concept of a community college, but would feel a lot more comfortable if we had hard numbers, names, and taxing authority limits.

While legal, the practice of sending absentee ballot applications reeks of buying the election–especially when the application is attached to a partisan advertisement. My mother would have called the practice “tawdry.”

It also creates costly and unnecessary work for the election clerk’s office.

Look for an opposition group to fire up its own machine in the next week or two, telling folks why they should vote “NO” on the proposal. Opponents get a “two for one” advantage in the election because it takes a 2/3 majority to pass. All they need is 34% to claim victory.

UPDATE 5/7/07–Official records show 10,310 applications for absentee ballots mailed out and 3,614 have been mailed back to the Ada County Clerk.

Comments & Discussion

Comments are closed for this post.

  1. What makes you think that all the absentee ballots are going to those in favor? Sometimes the sheer excess of publicity (and has there ever been more for any other issue?) prods those who might not expend the effort to actually go vote to send for an absentee and then vote no just because all the advertising is so irritating.

  2. My hubby and I will both be voting no on this one.. It bothers us to vote to raise our property taxes( they go up too fast as is is) , much less for a measure with an open ended blank check.. There has to be a better way to get a community college than this.. And where is all the money coming from that is community college yes?? We have already received numerous phone calls ,newspaper and tv ads,and several flyers in the mail..

  3. I’m going to make two assumptions about future activities of the Guardian judging from its comments in this particular case. 1) It will be chastising the Republican party for its “tawdry” actions when its political machine cranks up and does exactly the same thing with absentee ballots in the 2008 election (which it did in 2006) as is being criticized as part of the “get out the vote” campaign by Community College supporters; and 2) BG will be just as critical of those gathering funds from opponents of the Community College and spending it in the same manner as those who support the proposal are (i.e., why is it wrong for one group to raise and spend money but alright for the other). Who knows, maybe there really ARE more people in the two counties supportive of the concept, and who are therefore willing to put their money where their beliefs are. (On the other hand, if all those belonging to what would seem to be a non-well-to-do opposition chipped the first year’s taxes they would otherwise pay upon passage of the election into a campaign against the plan, they’d be money ahead in the long run wouldn’t they)?

  4. We were fortunate enough to receive TWO mailings from the CC Yes conspiracy. Did you notice the little blurb on the front stating “Your first class stamp will save THE campaign precious resources?” Our first mailing was returned to them with both cards saying “No Thanks.” I am holding the second set until I can attach them to boxes of just the right Idaho sex rocks from this spring’s discing. After all, it’s free, “NO POSTAGE REQUIRED IF MAILED IN THE UNITED STATES”

  5. I’m not sure how this creates more work for the County Elections. How is it different than any other request for an absentee ballot?

    The Counties themselves often promote absentee voting as a way to reduce volume at the polls, and as Stephen noted, absentee applications are regularly used this way by political parties and other organizations. Attempting to buy an election is nothing new, but not always effective, remember Prop. 2?

    I’m ambivalent on this one, inclined to vote yes, but I am concerned how this will impact existing higher education programs (that we already underfund) and wonder how we can adequately support CC programs on the measly proposed budget.

    However, opponents that choose to use the prepaid request mailed out by the Yes on CC group should note that the request first goes to the CC group, who then submit the request to the County, rather than directly to the County. So you save a stamp but will be on the Yes on CC contact list. You can decide if that’s worth saving $.39.

    EDITOR NOTE–
    –Extra work is in the number of ballots alone.
    –I believe in city election for example you go to city hall to vote absentee.
    –We oppose ANY misuse of the ballot. Control, delivery should be non-partisan.
    –County clerk sends daily e-mail to interested parties of all requests for absentee ballots, so you get on the lists no matter what–it’s a public record.

  6. The “extra work” idea makes me laugh. That sounds like someone at the county clerk’s office who doesn’t want to do their job. It’s not like people are voting twice; this is the time they’re voting. Are you trying to disenfranchise them? I doubt the Guardian wants to be known as a source that is discouraging people to vote. The amount of work being done by county clerks now will actually save work later on when those people don’t go to polls on May 22 and fewer ballots have to be counted. Whether it’s yes or no, absentee balloting is a convenient method and should not be discouraged, especially under the umbrella of “it’s too much work for the clerks.”

    EDITOR NOTE–Not to belabor the point, but there is a lot more involved when you have to open 10,000 pieces of mail, address 10,000 pieces of mail, open it when it returns, etc. etc.

    A simple computer ballot at the polls is already part of the deal. I don’t care which way anyone votes on any issue, but to extend an election period needlessly make little sense. If ALL ballots were via mail the arguments go away, ala Oregon.

    Dirty little secret: It is impossible to prevent someone from voting twice. Yes, it is recorded, but with our “registration at the polls” and a deluge of absentee ballots it creates a nightmare for volunteers and staffers alike.

  7. Murphy for Mayor
    May 5, 2007, 12:38 pm

    “No civilization in history has ever bankrupted itself educating its people.” -Unknown

    “Classrooms cost far, far less than Jail Cells.” -Unknown

    “Just because a fool tells you it’s raining, doesn’t mean the sun is shining.” -Confucious

  8. Well, that you vote is always public record. There would only be more work if there were a significant increase in absentee voting. They don’t post that info on the web (that I know of) so I can’t compare the absentee rate between elections, but I doubt that the number fluctuates greatly, based on what I’ve seen being a poll worker. And yes, any time you vote outside your regualr polling place on election day, it is considered an absentee vote.

    Guardian, what is your alternative to this system? Would you have no third party access to voter info? Voter records are public as a fraud prevention measure, so everyone has equal access to that, any party or campaign can get lists etc. Do you object to the email format, or ease of access? Do you think that only the voter should be able to access ballot request forms? What about registration? Isn’t it essentially the same process when an organization provides voter registration cards?

    I think the response to this issue depends on whether or not the absentee ballot request comes from an organization that you support. If so, it’s a clever and legal (if old) campaign strategy. If not, it’s a tawdry misuse of the ballot.

    The greatest misuse of the ballot is those thousands that are returned unused at every election.

    EDITOR NOTE–I am a strong advocate of voting, making polling places known and accessible, and I don’t care how you vote. I don’t care that ballot requests are public for any and all to use (that mention was to inform someone who feared getting on a list).

    Best analogy is ABSENTEE should be just like a SICK DAY. If you are planning to be gone or are physically unable to get to the polls vote absentee. Don’t call in sick unless you are really sick. I have no problem with EVERYONE voting by mail. I find it distasteful to get a ballot application as part of a paid brochure advocating one side. If someone wants an absentee ballot they can get it at the county clerk’s office. Why are you picking on me?

  9. I would suggest that we already have unlimited opportunities in southern idaho to get a 2-yr. college degree in multiple subjects. This community college is a develpers dream, as in the words of the Idaho Staesman’s article, ques. #4- How much will it cost taxpayers?-Quote ” No one knows.” One of their famous editorial answers, for sure.

    VOTE NO on this boondoggle gift to our developer lovers of concrete jungles and money and you will VOTE YES FOR THE TAXPAYER! Any one who wants to appear with me at a local TV ” interview” on stopping this thing, please e-mail me at [email protected] or call me at 426-8097.

  10. Joe Moran, what “unlimited opportunities” are you talking about? Boise State University? The community college will be roughly half the cost per credit hour. ITT Tech? The community college will be roughly a quarter of the cost per credit hour. It sounds like you want the students of the Treasure Valley to suffer by paying out of control tuition costs. You quoted the Statesman in your post. How about quoting the front page story recently that reported BSU’s tuition is going up 6%?

    The community college is NOT a “developer’s dream.” It’s going to be housed in exisiting buildings on the Boise State West campus. What development is involved if they already have the classrooms?

    No one knows what the college will cost? Try a $4 million increase in property taxes between Ada and Canyon counties, as part of a $25-$30 million operating budget. That IS a vote for the taxpayers — $11 a year extra on home valuations of $100,000. For that, you get existing buildings, curriculum and new programs in a full service community college, the first of its kind in the Treasure Valley. Thousands of students who have no other alternatives will be educated.

    The value of the new community college is staggering. It’s tiresome to read the words of uninformed people who are simply too cheap to pay for affordable education.

  11. Not trying to pick, but thanks for the clarification. Your criticism of the liberal application of “absentee” is legitimate, but who is to going to check on your “excuse”?

    My question is, where do you draw the line? For example, my Mom has several friends in nursing homes. She usually picks up several request forms and gives them to her friends. Now, they did not directly contact the Clerk themselves and request an application. Is it only acceptable that she distribute these if she has no point of view on the issues?

    Guardian, why are you picking on a campaign for using legal tactics? There’s plenty of other ammo to use, for or against the CC proposal, that’s much more relevant. Your criticism of the absentee system and campaign laws are just more appropriately directed at the County Clerks and the Legislature.

    Of course it is impossible to prevent someone from voting twice, just as it is impossible to prevent a lot of crazy things. It is however, a felony. We’re more likely to be victims of fraud or deceit in the “simple computer ballot at the polls” than the current absentee system. I just think you’re straining at a gnat here, as there’s far more potential for shenanigans in a completely vote by mail system that you say you support. You may find it distasteful, but I smell a herring.

  12. OK – what the heck is the Boise Guardian? The National Enquirer??? Who are the “sources”? How do we know this is the truth, because you don’t name your sources. I don’t think anyone should believe anything that says “sources say”. Let’s get legit here!!!! I think it’s great that people are voting – either way. This is my other point. How do you know who is voting? The supporters or the opposition?

    EDITOR NOTE–Sources stay secret if they want it that way. Without that protection they would be intimidated by employers or customers. If you have any doubts about accuracy, we challenge you to prove us wrong. We may differ on opinions, but survive on FACTS. If we are wrong we will gladly correct errors. Lots of people don’t like our opinions and conclusions, but few of them will challenge the facts. There is strength in TRUTH.

  13. Vicki, actually we DON’T know what the cost will be. We are only voting on creating a community college with the State Board choosing the directors who will then set the rate. It could be a $4million increase, it could be as much as four times that, perhaps even more.

    What’s even more interesting is the fact that the supporters are now saying that they are not sure that the classes they have been touting will even be offered.

    I would have no problem with this campaign if it were run honestly with all relevant information put out to the public in a comprehensive and transparent way. But every day a new caveat is exposed.

    And I sure don’t want my property tax dollars used so that someone in their forties or fifties or sixties or seventies can use the college as an entertainment center or a place they can learn foreign languages to further their world travels. They can spend their own money on those pursuits. And yet those are some of the reasons advertised why we need a community college.

  14. Vicki, you say this would be the first community of its kind in Treasure Valley.

    1. Treasure Valley Çommunity College is technically in the Treasure Valley, although it is on the other side of the state line.

    2. Boise Junior College, financed by property taxes through a taxing district, in at least Ada County, was in the Treasure Valley. It became Boise State University, which was supposed to continue to supply community college services. The BJC taxing district was phased out when the final bonds were paid off some time in the 1970s.

    I believe the Treasure Valley does need a stand-alone community college but the current proposal seems to leave way too many questions unanswered for it to be viable.

  15. The questions have been answered, Anne. This “debate” is a good exercise in watching a few people repeat the same questions over and over again, despite having them answered from several sources. They repeat the same questions, of course, because they don’t want their taxes raised, no way no how. So they pretend that they’re not “getting the full story.”

    The community college will follow the model of the College of Southern Idaho and North Idaho College. These schools work, they have worked, and they will continue to work. Why is this so hard to grasp?

  16. I voted absentee in favor. I’m glad I did!

  17. This community college push is simply another special interest group (just like ACHD or the CCDC or BSU) trying to influence enough votes to create yet another entity that has taxing authority.

    We do not need another taxing authority. ALL THE TOOLS ARE ALREADY IN THE LAW TO CREATE Colleges – all the legislature needs to do is create it – it appears they do not see the need.

    Also there is NO guarentee that costs will be less – this is like buying a car and not knowing what your payments will be before you sign on the dotted line – not a smart move.

  18. I gleefully voted NO on my absentee ballot. I did it because I like the idea of voting by mail. I’m all for community colleges but not until the bonehead legislature allows communities to charge impact fees on developers for schools and infrasructure. We need to work on how our public schools are funded before we encourage another weak education system. If the CC is not well funded, accredited, highly regarded etc., it will be the laughing stock of higher ed in the valley.

    Micron has already said they will move offshore with future production. They gladly encourage taxpayer funding of their workforce. Perhaps that is what is behind the push. A threat to taxpayers that if they don’t train the workforce they move to China.

  19. OK – I just checked with a friend who has actually seen the ballots coming in. My SOURCE says your numbers (FACTS) are wrong. So, let’s see you correct yourself. Get the facts, just like you claim you do.

    EDITOR NOTE–See the updated figures posted at the end of the story above. Indeed, the GUARDIAN is totally accurate. If your friend has numbers significantly different than the GUARDIAN, your friend is simply uninformed or a liar. It would be impossible to be more accurate than the person who tallies the figures–the Ada County Clerk.

    Please don’t force me to chase rumors to defend my honor again.

  20. There are far worse things to raise our taxes for. I will vote Yes on this.

  21. I wasn’t calling you a liar – you story was just decieving. The percentage of returned ballots does not really equate out to buying votes. That’s waht I meant by National Enquirer – you sensationlized the story tremondosly. If you are going to provide facts, provide all of the facts. And, thanks for providing all of the facts – even if we had to beg for them. So, why when you were asked to disclose your source didn’t you just say the person at the ADA Co. Clerk’s office?

    EDITOR NOTE–Where are the figures YOUR source offered?

  22. I just have this nagging feeling, maybe it is from the results of the library issue, that if, in fact, the CC issue fails at the polls, there will “blossom” an alternative source of funding!

  23. I voted YES to a community college and am thrilled we may be able to have this school soon. I voted for it because I believe its our responsibility as citizens to publicly fund education. It’s wrong to say you don’t want the community college because you’re not going to use it or don’t want to pay for it. It’s even more wrong to say you don’t want it because you don’t want growth. Our children need affordable education. If you weren’t going to use a new elementary school, would you vote against that too? How about a new road, or a new exit from an existing road … would you vote against that just because you didn’t use it?

  24. My source gave me similar numbers on ballots turned in and a much different number for those who have applied, but I’m not the one claiming to be the provider of facts. So, why are you challenging me? Again, I’d like to point out that even if your number are accurate, it doesn’t look like votes are being bought. That anaylogy is a stretch at best! My source also said that the staff has no problem counting the ballots and is something budgeted, not an extra cost to anyone. Especially, since there haven’t been that many. Thus, also confirms that there is a crimp in your “buying the votes” theory.

  25. Rod in SE Boise
    May 7, 2007, 8:50 pm

    For me, it is simple. If a “Yes” vote will raise property tax rates or sales tax rates, I will vote “No”. If the funding for the proposed community college was based on the income tax, I would vote “Yes”.

    We need to move away from property taxes and sales taxes and towards income tax to fund the needs of society.

Get the Guardian by email

Enter your email address:

Categories