Education
C. College ReRun, Three Views
May 7, 2007 
The GUARDIAN has previously posted three views on the Community College ballot question. There has been a lively debate, but the issue is still important so we offer the links below to the stories.
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Comments & Discussion
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© 2007 Boise Guardian. 
Apr 26, 2007, 9:35 am
“No civilization in history has ever bankrupted itself educating its people” -Unknown
Apr 26, 2007, 12:46 pm
The nursing shortage in this valley is critical, and will undoubtedly affect the ability of hospitals to provide care. In fact, several nights this past year, there has not been a bed available from Ontario to Elmore County.
Physical space is less of a constraint (though is becoming more so) than staffing. We need more nurses, and we need more programs. Community colleges are essential to this valley’s health.
Apr 30, 2007, 4:57 pm
If we need more nurses all we need to do is admit more students to the nursing programs already in place.
If those programs need more resourses to teach more students then the legislature already has the ability to fund that – if they like – we do not need another duplication of governmental spending.
May 3, 2007, 7:32 am
Wouldn’t be nice just to expand current programs? Truth is, that won’t even begin to cut it. This is an extremely serious problem looming over the entire Treasure Valley. Why we are willing to subsidize growth but not critical education floors me. One way or another, we’ll pay the price.
Editor Note–Don’t know that we are “willing” to subsidize growth. We get to vote on the education issues, but not on new subdivisions or planned communities. Not fair to create a problem with no voice to voters and then ask them to pay to solve it.
May 3, 2007, 12:03 pm
Once again I don’t get it. Why can’t Boise State offer 2 year or 4 year degrees? Like ClippityClop says, why not expand programs already in place?
My husband says he supports a community college but we have been bombarded with so much pro college propaganda that I am becoming suspicious that this is just another way for some special interest group to make money off the backs of taxpayers. Sorry to be so cynical but when some group is able to pay for all that sleek and glossy advertising there must be a payback somewhere.
May 5, 2007, 5:23 pm
As I’m sure “voter” and treva realize, these issues are just slightly more complex than they appear. Simply opening up more spots will not suffice. If you compare salaries of practicing RN’s and teachers, you will find RN’s make significantly higher wages than do the teachers with Master’s degrees.
Which means (if you follow the logical progression) quality instructors are unwilling to take a pay cut for the betterment of society. Plus you have to think about space, labs, and teacher to student ratios that will produce nurses capable of handling life and death situations. You have to remember they are not simply building cogs for a factory.
They have to be thinking reacting individuals capable of handling the most stressful situations in life. You don’t want to pay, that’s fine. But the nursing shortage cannot and will not be corrected by itself. Once more, the banjo players in the Legislature come from areas that do not face the same problems as we face in the Treasure Valley, and they are unwilling to do anything (see the sine die report).
They are elected to solve problems, and near as I can tell, they create more problems than they solve. Ultimately, if we want a community that can respond to the problems we face, we must take matters into our own hands.
PS what a great reason to vote against something… because it is professionally done. Wow, amazing logic.
May 7, 2007, 5:41 pm
So Insider. No nurse wants to be an instructor because they won’t make enough money. That’s fair.
But tell me this. How will a community college, which will no doubt pay less well than BSU or existing nursing programs, (because of course one of the many many selling points of a cc is that it is “affordable” ie cheaper) find the instructors for the new nursing programs? I mean, if you follow the logical progression, if you can’t find instructors for BSU, where would you be able to find them for a cc?
May 7, 2007, 9:34 pm
I think you might be surprised when it comes to recruiting nurse educators at the community college level. Nursing is a phenonmenally arduous career, physically, mentally and emotionally. There is a large cadre of extremely experienced and caring nurses at both large city hospitals who are nearing retirement and/or are looking for meaningful work that is less taxing than what they are being asked to do in this time of unrelenting demand and nursing shortage.
I can imagine no better teachers. These women and men have seen it all, done it all and have their finger on the pulse of this community. Ask your nurse friends — what do they think about the need for community colleges? Their answer may surprise you. By the way, BSU is not the only nursing program in the valley. NNU has one, too, and both still can’t even come close to accomodating even a reasonable number of qualified applicants who apply and whose services are desperately needed. And the shortage we are experiencing now is expected to reach a crisis state in the years to come.
May 8, 2007, 12:15 am
Clippityclop nails it about experienced and/or retiring nurses potentially being excellent teachers. There’s a dire nursing shortage in the valley and “expanding BSU’s program” is not enough, even if that were a viable solution.
Remember, if we expand BSU, the taxpayers will pay for it anyway, and they’ll pay a cost much more than estimated for the community college. Try $10 million in property taxes to expand BSU vs. $4 million in property taxes to fund a new community college. People should think twice before making the knee-jerk reaction of “expanding BSU.” Yes, you’ll pay higher taxes and the students will still have to pay Boise State’s high tuition costs.
EDITOR NOTE–For clarity, BSU funds would NOT come from property tax and any tax funds would come from ALL of Idaho, not just Ada and Canyon counties. Many people question the $4 million figure as well.
May 8, 2007, 6:42 am
Yes lets flood the market with nurse’s so that the pay will go down, no benifits will be offered and the admistraters of the hospitals can inflate their over inflated wages even more. Make’s sense to me.
May 8, 2007, 10:42 am
If Boise State University really wants to attain the status of “Metropolitan Research University of Distinction” then it needs to get rid of the 2-year degree programs.
BSU is overloaded and over capacity, and the City of Boise is far past due for a community college. Have you ever tried to sign up for a program or classes at BSU? Just getting through the administration process and finding a class that isn’t full is a chore. The community college will alleviate this for many who might feel too intimidated to apply at BSU. Like I said before, there are far, far worse things to spend tax payer money on than a community college. It will get my vote.
May 8, 2007, 12:45 pm
Clippityclop – sounds like double think to me. Nursing teachers will not work for BSU but will for a community college? If BSU had the funding to expand it’s program (taachers and facilities) and could add more seats (students) it in fact would address the problem – it is in fact that simple. If the legislature wanted to expand nursing it has several means outside of a community college.
May 8, 2007, 1:35 pm
BSU is probably the biggest silent cheerleader for Community college for a couple of reasons. They could “sell” the Seland College of Tech. A.k.a Truck Driving school and they would be bailed out of the BSU West campus.
May 8, 2007, 5:07 pm
Several other Idaho bloggers from across the political spectrum made posts today in support of the community college plan.
Here’s mine, with links to the others.
http://redstaterebels.typepad.com/red_state_rebels/2007/05/blogger_unite_f.html
I have concerns about the proposal, but I believe many of the details can and will be resolved. Right now, Idaho has the fewest community colleges of any state in the nation. I’m sick of being last in everything, and I want to give our kids more opportunities for affordable higher ed. And $20-30 bucks or so a year in extra taxes is a freakin’ bargain, folks. Quit being so cheap.
May 8, 2007, 5:32 pm
Robert,
Trust me, there is zero chance of “flooding the market” with nurses. Ask the CEOs of both major hospitals what their number one concern is and they’ll tell you, without question, quality nurse recruitment. They know what’s already here and what’s coming. Floor and unit nurses will tell you the same thing. Without an influx of good nurses to replace those retiring soon, and to allow expanded care of a growing population, the always available hospital care we take for granted will be seriously compromised. BSU and NNU cannot ramp up enough to meet the need.
Nancy,
It not “as simple as that”. We really need more programs yesterday. Waiting for the legislature to throw cash at BSU ain’t going to cut it. Further, I really don’t think that staffing a community college nursing program is going to be the problem you think it is for the reasons I’ve previously stated above. Talk to your nurse friends. They’ll give you the straight skinny and I think you’ll come away with a different perspective.
May 9, 2007, 9:04 am
We are really getting bogged down on the nursing issue and the community college. That is only a small spectum of what the community college can offer. It will be able to more efficiently offer 2 year programs and other non-four year courses than will BSU. If BSU could get rid of the Selland College then they could focus more resources to higher level academics and research, which is what their true mission is supposed to be.
May 16, 2007, 12:31 pm
Just to clarify an earlier post, I tend to be in favor of community colleges. The community college system in Kentucky allowed my daughter to proceed through several steps to work as a nurse, first with an LPN program, then a 2 year RN program and finally to her BSN degree at a state college extension.
What I question, (and I will admit to not investigating more) is when hugh amounts of mass mailings and television ads are being done I have to question where the money is coming from. People generally invest their money with the expectation that there will be a return on the investment. My question is who will benefit financially from this ad campaign?