The Treasure Valley is, even in a housing slump, one of the top five fastest growing places on the United States. You can try to control growth but you really can’t stop it, especially in a state like Idaho that values property rights above all else. Unless we plan for extensive public transit now then we will be behind the eight ball in the future. This is an area where we need to be proactive not reactive. We need to lay the infrastructure and plan for our future needs now or we will pay much more later. And, this is going to call for a much more complex solution than a bunch of vans. We do need transit stations, especially in Boise; and as the City grows I think an urban comuter train is a good idea. You can say that growth isn’t inevitable if you want, but I think you are wearing blinders. Growth will happen, but we can plan for it and manage it.

I have to agree with the other commenters. The Guardian is sometimes so negative it makes me wonder why you don’t run for political office since you are always touting that you have all the right answers. I’m sure that there are at least some public officals out there that are trying to do the best job they can with the resources they have been given. Statements like,
“It is an understatement to say we are disappointed with elected officials. They have demonstrated a profound inability to cope with the mess they have created through growth.”, make me immeadiatly lose interest as you sound like just another armchair quarterback calling plays from the safety of the internet.

Do keep in mind that rail, bus and van are all means to rectify the single-occupancy vehicle dilemma. Each of these solutions have a specific use that, when taken together, establishes a comprehensive transit scenario that will reduce the cumulative number of empty seats on the interstate and principal arterials in the state of Can-Ada.

Transit users have needs that must be satisfied before they will be comfortable enough to leave their cars behind. These needs can be satisifed by modes of use: rail is speed, bus is destination and van is convienance.

One of the benefits of using a good ‘transit mix’ (rail, bus & van) means using multipal approaches to accomodate a broader cross section of transportation system users. A single approach will produce singluar results. Therefore, heavy rail, lite rail and even a downtown circulator have specific purposes for specific users.

I would challenge the readership to consider using multiple tools to tinker with the complex transit system and consider the possiblilty that only looking at the rubber tire as a solution -may be missing the bus.

Let’s consider some issues:

Boise is growing, but we are no Salt Lake City. When the FTA distributes transit grants, the FTA wants to get the biggest bang for their buck like all of us. This means as the FTA has authority to distribute transit grants, those funds tend to migrate to larger metro areas. In speaking with the FTA they have explained to me they look for communities that are large, have high population density, have a population that is supportive and using existing mass transit, and communites where lawmakers are supportive of mass transit, ie funding.

I have a difficult time seeing how Boise really meets any of those criteria. We are not very large or dense, nationally speaking, and the ridership and funding of our transit system is token at best.

No community leader wants to be charged with not being forward thinking, and many people’s fear of not leaving a legacy in Boise has hurt our mass transit system. Amidst the paranoia to plan 20 years out, we find ourselves investing hundreds of thosands if not millions of dollars in pie in the sky studys such as:

Downtown Circulator
North South Circulator
Rail corridor preservation
VRT low, mid and high range plans by consultant Nelson Nygaurd
Paratransit Study
High Density Mobility Study
Downtown Mega-transit center

and many more. Despite all these studys over the years, the bus service has not really changed, and in fact as gas prices have spiked bus ridership in the nation has climbed, while Boise has lost ridership some years, and been stagnant other years. VRT is so little concerned about operations, it has been farmed out to a consultant to handle all operations, thus allowing VRT to focus on more studies that will never materialize in our lifetime.

I would argue Boise needs a back to the basics lesson in mass transit. VRT management needs to stop all long range planning for at least 5 years. VRT management should focus on improving the existing service and terminate their contract with the operations consultant. Funds currently being allocated to planning efforts, need to be reallocated to improve bus frequency and extend operational hours. Then when VRT has improved serivce, ridership is up, farebox recovery is at least at the national average of 25%, then we can discuss some expansion and longer-term planning.

If the busses were not running mostly empty and the community had a passion for mass transit visible by ridership, then local option taxing might not be so difficult to obtain.

I can understand the reluctancy of many people and lawmakers, the current proposals on the table are literally we have a problem, let’s throw money at it.

Anyone interested in the future of transit issues in Boise should be sure to attend the open house today at the former retail store at Idaho and Ninth Street in Downtown Boise. Public input is desparately needed to see if the studies that are being conducted are on the right track (I had to say that) or have missed the boat. Valley Regional Transit and COMPASS are co-hosting this open house to cover the three part study funded by the feds. The three components are what is called the Mult-modal transportation center siting issue, the Downtown Boise Circulator and preservation of transit corridors throughout Ada County. All three of these are critical to many future alternatives.

The Guardian should particularly like the Multi-modal center because it is being designed almost exclusively for bus connections and to accomodate other urban transportation needs including bikes, vans, pedestrians and autos. It will probably end up to be similar to facilities currently operating in regional cities like Reno, Spokane, Tacoma, Sacramento, SLC and many other cities the size of Boise –I am sure there will be visual examples and plans on display at the open house.

One comment made by the Guardian concerns the realignment of the center of the Treasure Valley to as far west as Eagle Road and as a result there is a question why Downtown Boise should be the terminus of transit alternatives. Part of the reason is that Downtown Boise continues even with the growth of the Treasure Valley to be the largest employment center in the state. Over 40,000 people work in Downtown Boise, compared to less than 20% of that number in any other pocket of employment. So regardless of where people live, they still tend to work in Downtown and that is why transit to Downtown is critical. One of the solutions that we all must consider is to get people to work closer to their homes or out of their homes…that is definitely part of the long term solution. Meanwhile it is just good planning to consider that Downtown Boise will continue to be important and a destination worth visiting.

EDITOR NOTE–Tom, given your example would you support a local CITY INCOME TAX? That way, all those who actually make money and use Boise amenities will help pay. It would certainly be a great source of revenue with all the high paying jobs we have within the city limits. At a rate of 1% of gross earnings a $50,000 job would generate $500 in taxes.

Who is obsessed with Light Rail? Let me sort this out.

Mayor B is obvious as he has stated that “people will leave cars for trains – not buses” despite all evidence to the contrary.

Mayor B even said that MotivePower could make the cars, but didn’t understand they make trains for commuter rail.

Councilman Eb has stated that rail should be everywhere instead of buses – and this comes from a proclaimed urban economist.

Meridian’s Mayor has asked ACHD (huh?) to consider a streetcar on Fairview in Meridian. Eagle’s former mayor sat at the COMPASS Communities in Motion forums and proposed light rail through the urban farms on Beacon Light Road.

COMPASS has more than $1 million to spend on studies for a rail line from Caldwell to Boise (it’s under the guise of “I-84 Alternatives Analysis”), the lightrail streetcar downtown (predisposed by CCDC for rail despite the downtown mobility study calling for study of other modes) and a downtown “multi-modal” center (where the DBA is pitching for a downtown parking garage paid for with “transit” funds).

As I said before, Boise is already the 3rd largest city in the Northwest and one of the fastest growing cities in the country. If you don’t think we quite have the population numbers to support mass transit at this time do you not think we will in the near future? How do you justify not wanting to plan for the future and lay the foundation for what will ultimately be needed? I’ve never understood the reactive approach to urban planning that seems to plague this community. By the way, the current bus system has low ridership because it operates ineffectively. Many cities have done it wrong and only a few have managed to do it right. Unfortunately we keep pointing to those that have had problems.

EDITOR NOTE–I feel as though I need to defend myself. As one commenter noted, we have had more PLANS than anyone can count, but no fixes. I have suggested a batch of stuff in hopes that someone will step up and say YES, NO, or OK with MODIFICATION. All I am hearing is “We are big and getting bigger” and most people commenting want a train. If that is the case, made a proposal and let’s see if citizens really want something and are willing to pay.

At this point government is the “negative” force. They don’t trust citizens to make a BINDING vote on much anything, fearing a “no” vote. Even if folks do vote no, it is just a matter of months before local government is back with their hand out.

Good observations, especially how the center of the universe is no longer downtown Boise. Yet Boise officials view downtown as some sort of hallowed ground, where appearances and pedestrian-friendliness count. Meanwhile, the remaining 95 percent of Boise can be as pedestrian- and transit-hostile as it wants to be.

Transit’s main obstacle here is that we don’t have the style of development to support it. The city simply won’t enforce transit-friendly development styles outside of the North End and downtown, even though the city’s comp plans have called for that since 1997. Local option taxation isn’t going to help change our land use.

However, I have to agree with Calvin – autos do get a big subsidy. One-third of the ACHD’s budget comes from property tax, so taxpayers are footing the bill for the current auto-oriented road system. Then there’s the whole issue of fighting wars over oil being a subsidy …

Lots of good points made here. I seem to have a minority view in thinking that public transit can/does/should have a part to play in environmental matters, the most obvious of which may be a reduction of automobile produced pollutants.

The recently passed and signed Federal Standards doesn’t do squat to improve this situation; we need additional solutions. Both my wife and I grew up using public transportation (bus services), in states distant from one another, and do so now, very happily, when we visit our Boise-raised, but no longer resident children. These children all left Boise for more fruitful, urban areas with strong public transportation programs and services.

Why Sara, it sounds like we went to school together! You couldn’t be more correct!

Until gas doubles from current rates, most people will drive rather than take an extra hour per day on their commute.

Up for a little fun while bringing attention to the transportation problem here in God’s Country?

Join Boise’s First Annual “No Pants Day” on Friday, June 6th.

Grab a cuppa joe, drop trou, grab a bus and enjoy a dollar tour of our fine town.

For more information on this growing phenomenon in America, visit:

http://www.improveverywhere.com/2007/12/29/no-pants-2k8-details-for-nyc/

and/or go to YouTube and Search “No Pants Day”.

A Boise informational website coming soon.

And remember, if anyone asks where your pants are… “Someone stole ’em”

; )

Guardian — I have to complement you and your contributors for one of the most insightful and intelligent blog strings ever. The questions and comments are first rate. I will make sure that they all get circulated to the committees and task forces working on the Valley Regional Transit/COMPASS studies.

If you went to the open house as Bill C I hope you left your comments and questions. These study groups are always interested in public input. Bill C mentions that there was too much PR and not enough substance and that is probably an accurate observation. However, I would recommend to any of you with interests in more than just PR that you visit both the COMPASS and Valley Ride web sites for the actual precursor studies, the minutes and handouts from all deliberations and much, much more data and information. I can’t say that all questions will be answered by the wizard, but I can say that there is alot more detail available for your review, consideration and critique.

I won’t try to respond to every question raised by your contributors, but I would like to make a simple request of those who consider themselves liberterians or fiscal conservatives with regard to government programs. There is a series of position papers written by conservative guru Paul Weyrich and Bill Lind that make the case for public transportation including buses, rail, streetcars and other modes. They can be found at http://www.apta.com/research/info/online/. Take a look at their logic and conclusions…these are not liberal, progressive, tree huggers or even economic luddites. They are well respected Conservative Republican politicos that make a strong case for transit and more importantly public support through taxes for that transit investment. Are they right? Maybe, maybe not, but at least take a gander at their data and observations.

While you are at that web site, you might find sources for answering some of your other questions about transit. You may even come up with new questions that we need to address. No one can say that the Treasure Valley is ready for Sara’s nightmare of having to spend BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars on transit. She clearly has found our Achilles heel.

My response to her is that BILLIONS and BILLIONS will be spent on moving people and freight through the Treasure Valley…what we are trying to do is determine the wisest method for getting that done. Don’t be put off so much by the high cost because it is fixed, let’s try to be efficient.

Tom Ryder and Wonk Vader.

Please. You must start being realistic. What Boise had in the past century is a nice historical fact. What is also historical fact is we no longer have those rails in place. The ROW for rail is gone.

Do either of you doubt that the cost for light rail would be in the billions? If so, please tell us how many hundreds of millions it would cost.

Tom Ryder. You say we will spend billions and billions to move freight and people through the TV. Ok riddle me this. If we switch every one of those billions to your light rail scheme, will there be a light rail stop within a block of every block in the Treasure Valley? Or will we need more billions to accomplish that?

Everyone needs to get real. Light rail is EXPENSIVE. St Louis started with a small line at a cost of $435 Million. Oh yeah that figure was for 1993. Kansas City wants to start a system along the same small increment. Their cost is $1 BILLION for a starter line. Salt Lake City’s plan for expansion is only $1.2 billion.

So who’s neighborhood gets taken in eminent domain first? What’s the cost of that? Who does the planning for the light rail system? The same people that bring you the routes for the bus system? How long does light rail take to construct? Well, first you need a revenue stream and a whole lot of money from that.

The point is – be realistic. If you want mass transit to work, you need a better bus system. Otherwise you only have a mildly interesting debating society.

I’ve said it before but it bears repeating given some of the more recent comments…the cost/performance of light rail is all but moot in the Treasure Valley. Its a straw man argument. The fact is that there are NO plans for light rail in the valley. Some folks w/media attraction mention it WAY too often but that doesn’t mean its planned. Given the cost of light rail those who bash lightrail are correct…it wouldn’t be cost effective enough to justify. But that is one of the most expensive types of mass transit so lets not get distracted. There are other much, much cheaper types of rail & non-rail vehicles that would mimic light rail w/out the cost.

Another point of correction…the rail right of way is not gone! The Boise shortline right of way is intact and in use for freight from Nampa to Boise.True there is no longer a decent, dedicated right of way to connect downtown from the Boise shortline along 84 but you don’t need dedicated right of way with bus rapid transit or some of the smaller commuter rail vehicles…which are fantastically cheaper than light rail. Given this, the eminent domain issue is blown way out of proportion.

There ARE plans for greatly expanded bus service that would go along w/any substantial mass transit along interstate 84.

As Tom R said, this is one of the best threads I’ve seen on this site and I hate to see it polluted w/spin and distractions.

Trent, you do the math. 50,000 users out of 1.25 million residents. Kind of scary, huh?
Salt Lake City is in a “natural corridor”. Mountains on one side, water on the other. Nothing remotely like that here, hence we can’t hope to duplicate the less than 5% ridership that Salt Lake City enjoys.

So, at the very best, we could expect maybe 1-2% ridership? Sounds like a boat load of money for very little impact.

In my business experience, when someone suggests a new product line, my first question is “have we max’d out our current lines? Are they the very best possible, the most productive, the most efficient products that we currently manufacture?” If the answer is yes, then we move forward on new products. If the answer is no, then we go back to work to make them so.

My point is that until we have a surface transportation system that functions well, is efficient, and the very best system we can offer, we have NO business trying to develop rail at any level.

Please refrain from the ressurection of long vacated rail lines in the valley. It ain’t gonna happen in the next 30 years! It’s a Utopian type arguement that accomplishes nothing constructive.Sadly, I believe that the most logical short and intermediate solution to our traffic will be more lanes, beltways, and by-passes. Not the sexiest solution, but probably the most realistic.

Approval for funding the Salt Lake City transit system was at the ballot box. You can learn more about how it was funded, how the citizens and voters became convinced to tax themselves to connect communities throughout the Wasatch Front and how it has become more popular every year by attending the City Club of Boise forum on Thursday. See http://www.cityclubofboise.org/ to register and for more details.

Sara complains about the cost which is astronomical. Now come and hear why the Treasure Valley should begin now to consider whether potential benefits of funding better transit outweigh those costs.

The first step we need to accomplish here in Idaho is finding a logical source of funding. A state wide coalition is trying to convince the Idaho legislature that the most logical and germane source would be local taxpayers very similar to the SLC model.

Come and hear how they did it there and get some of your questions answered at the City Club forum. Kelli Fairless, executive director of Valley Regional Transit will also be on the program, so bring your tough questions and see how the experts respond.

Tom Ryder, you sneeringly say that I find the costs of light rail astronomical. I guess you don’t.
Interesting.

Here’s an article written by a federal reserve economist. Granted it was written in 2004 but it’s appropriate and won’t be out of date. Perhaps in reading this you might realize my “complaint” is rather a reflection of the reality of light rail.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3678/is_200407/ai_n9427241

The title is Light Rail: Boon or Boondoggle.

Hey there Tom! If this is indicative of the response you folks are going to get at your, yet another,symposium, I would suggest you either double up on the Zantac or find someone to go fishing with that day.

Who says critical issues can’t be fun?

Boise’s “1st Annual No Pants Day” will be the First Friday of June.

Have a little fun, and bring awareness to the Treasure Valley’s need for more intelligent transportation solutions.

Part of a growing “No Pants Day” movement in America, Boise No Pants Day receives it’s inspiration from New York City’s, that began 8 years ago.

Please Visit: http://www.myspace.com/boisenopantsday

For More information about NYC’s recent No Pants Day, visit:
http://www.improveverywhere.com/2008/01/16/no-pants-2k8/

In the wild Mother Nature handles infestations of lemmings with cliffs and takes out overpopulations of jack rabbits with epidemics like Tularemia or increases in the numbers of ravenous coyotes and hawks.

Although I feel sympathy for the Idahoans caught up in the local traffic messes I enjoy the Hell out of the daily traffic cam reviews of all the two legged immigrant lemmings nose to tail in grid lock sucking up their peer’s carcinogenic exhaust at the source of its creation.

As far as voluntarily spending one more dime of my money so the transplants can still afford their mcmansions in Nampa, Murphy, Middleton, Eagle (WHATEVER) and commute comfortably to Boise? NO! That money too will have to continue to be extorted from me.

Mr. Ryder,
I am interested in why the Simplot Company is so interested in supporting the mass transit issue other than just being a good corporate citizen?

What is the Simplot Company doing now to reduce traffic and air pollution? I looked on the company website under employee benefits and expected to see some info about how dedicated Simplot Company is toward the cause such as carpooling information.

Tom Ryder, apology accepted.

However, in regards to your premise that all options must be on the table, I disagree.

Why spend countless more years and a lot more money on studying all options, when it is more than likely that some of those options will never come to fruition? It sounds like ITD studying widening the interstate to 3 lanes over a period of three years when four lanes were needed 3 years ago and the price during the interim skyrocketed.

At some point we need to say enough to studies and start doing. Our bus system today is rather pathetic and not well used. This discussion re the bus system has been the same for the last 20 years. It is time for action.

The bus system is the only viable transit option for this valley. Even those who want the train on the existing tracks that goes basically nowhere is going to need a bus system that links up with it.

So rather than spend a lot of time blathering on and on about options, there should be an effort undertaken immediately to design a bus system that can work. Then figure out the costs of expanding the system and then figure out the revenue stream.

If the solons in this community decide to power through a sales tax increase (assuming the Leg authorizes it) without a doable plan in place, I doubt it will pass and it should not.

Realistically, other than lack of will, there is nothing keeping Valley Ride from redesigning their system as we speak.

Wow Guardian, is this a record number of comments?

Obviously transit is a very complicated subject, and its hard to figure out a workable, fair solution to the issues.

Just wanted to mention that I believe Valley Ride or Valley Regional Transit does have a 6 year plan. They call it “Treasure Valley in Transit.” According to the Valley Regional Transit website this will cost about $44.5 million a year to implement. It is unclear to me if this figure is for their total budget or for the additional cost of service, but in any case they seem to have a plan ready to go. Is the best way to improve the bus system to give it additional funding? More routes, frequency of service, and extended hours of operation all cost something right?

Also, do we know exactly what kind of projects will be proposed if the legislature approves an optional tax?

Thanks to Curious Bob for citing “Treaure Valley in Transit”. The complete study and conclusions with detailed explanations and assumptions can be found at the Valley Regional Transit web site…http://www.valleyregionaltransit.org/Portals/0/Studies/ROCIP/final_reportwithoutmaps.pdf. It is one of those studies that we all seem to think lead no where, but in this case it does confirm that the answer to improving Treasure Valley transportation may require additional funding for public transit. This study does include some consideration for rail especially corridor preservation, but primarily it focuses on the Guardians favorite method of moving people, buses, vans and other alternatives.

Sara is right on that it is time to stop the studies, quit analyzing and start taking real action. Unfortunately, the limiting factor is neither hopes and dreams or even demand…but is instead funding. The TV in Transit study identifies potential sources. The Treasure Valley transit coalition did a study and it identified various sources and many very knowledgeable urban planners have identified various sources, but guess what…all legitimate sources involve taxes in some form. Some one up above suggested a fund raising drive, the Guardian likes to believe that voluntary ride sharing is an answer and the tech people like to suggest home offices. I support all of those as we all should. But in the end, it does take lots and lots and lots of funding and those will fall short. Should we try them, sure go ahead…let’s educate, encourage and work together. But let’s be honest and admit that if we want to address the Treasure Valley transit congestion it will take massive amounts of funding from public sources and that means taxes. Again, whether you want to support public transit or not, massive funding will be required to add lanes, rebuild interchanges, condemn right of way and otherwise maintain our current plans.

So, now we are left with question of who is going to pay these taxes? My vote is for the feds and tourists. I am also somewhat skeptical that will generate enough, so just as others who have published the studies (so many times) have concluded maybe the solution rests with US. Maybe a local funding source should be identified and tapped to solve these local problems. Maybe, as Pogo said, we have found the problem and it is US and maybe it is up to US to solve it…not the feds, not the state but the true beneficiaries of the good that will come of it. So with that in mind, and as I have stated previously, our first step must be identifying a secure and long term source of funding. My recommendation is we support the proposal that will be made to the Idaho legislature that would allow a local vote to fund transportation improvements…both roads/highways and transit. The proposal would require a super majority and would have many sideboards and protections for taxpayers and voters. The public vote would include a requirement that the plan for spending any funds be detailed and publicized completely. The actual language of the legislative proposal is located at various places including http://www.valleyregionaltransit.org/Portals/0/CoalitionForPT/DraftRTAlegislation.pdf.

Oh, and in reply to Billy Idaho and Mr. Logic, do you really think it would be a wise career move for me to criticize Company execs? As far as Simplot is concerned, I am very proud of some of our programs including subsidized van pooling, flexible work hours for avoiding traffic congestion, our sustainable Simplot award program which recognizes successful reductions in energy usage and many other corporate wide programs to address these issues. Are we doing enough…no…none of us are and now we all must do more…including paying more taxes.