i’d like to read the letter too.

EDITOR NOTE–Alex, we were able to get a readable file posted with a link in the body of the story. Enjoy.

I say this is solid ground for Boise to privatize the fire department and take bids from Rural Metro. The taxpayers would save huge amounts of money doing this. In fact many cities around the country have done this and have not seen any changes in services and in fact many cities have seen better services from private fire departments and reduced cost at the same time.
On a different note: Has Dave Bieter ever returned his fee’s back to McCall for the bad advice that cost the taxpayers huge amounts of money in the waste treatment lawsuit?

Could this move concernimg the Fire Dept. getting involved in emergency services smack a bit of the Bieter Bunch getting involved in community organizing? I would like to see the letter also. Editor thank you for keeping us in the know regarding this.

EDITOR NOTE–Karen, just click on the link in the post to see the letter!

Lexi, I have zero clue why you have addressed me on such a topic as the studies you noted. If you wanted to read into my post, you could say that I’m all for Ada county keeping the medical services and farming out Boise’s fire department to a private sector company that can save us a lot of money. And yes, we likely could receive better fire service. Which has nothing to do with paramedics.

Mr. Watcher,

I think Lexi was confused, and thought you referenced (and were supporting) BFD’s earlier attempt to bring in Rural Metro PARAMEDICS to provide EMS coverage to the city of Boise, thereby replacing ACP AND adding more paramedics to the mix.

Ironically, I was talking to one of the people I go to church with, and other than from me, none of them had heard of it (even those that live near the north end). The article from Channel 2 is now gone (Or at least I cant find it), and no one else if covering it!

Hmmmmmmm

No offense, but from what I see the commentators opinions are off base, misdirected and to a certain extent uneducated. Politics, Politics, Politics ‘The shame of it all’

First, double taxation doesn’t matter as much as does total taxation. If they can have two systems and do it as cheaply as the current system, or cheaper, that suits me fine.

Second, since when does the doc union care which truck delivers the meat. When the kings of inflated costs complain about inefficiencies in health care is laughable on its face. The fact that they, don’t like it means nothing.

Third, it is quality of service that counts. Provided quality of service is maintained, again, at equal or lower prices, there is no reason to complain.

Fourth, and most importantly, the county brings this on themselves. They treat the various cities with total disrespect in a variety of ways, from zoning free-for-alls to management of the race track. Then, they act totally aghast when the cities dis them in return. Events like this will continue until Tilman, Yzaguirre and Ullman get off their throne and start working with the cities for the betterment of the people.

BG…..have you gotten a response from the city with regard to the Letter from the Emergency Doctors? Also, has there been any notice yet about a possible public meeting to discuss the issue? Last question – BG you have obvisously been watching/monitoring local government for some time….do you believe there is some sort of “back door dealings” or pressure from the Fire Department Union….I have not studied the issue as much as I should, however in a right to work state, any union attempting to “pressure” a government agency is treading on thin ice?

EDITOR NOTE–
–No word from the city…Team Dave doesn’t share a lot with the GUARDIAN.
–No word on a public meeting, one of the councilors who talks to us said he had requested public discussion.
–FD people seems to support the ambulance idea, but don’t know if there is a union position.
–There have obviously been “back door meetings” between FD command and Team Dave (mayor’s office) and councilors have been out of the loop.

Guadian, pardner, if you think this yar sawbones letter seals your case, I suggest stepping back from the bar, calling a cab, and under no uncertain terms, do not attempt to operate heavy equipment.

A couple of days ago you leaned on Bieter and Crappo pretty hard for trying to sell a train with no supporting evidence. In this case we have a bunch of hired scalpels whose saddlebags are similarly empty. Like I say, ease yourself away from the bar. This girl won’t look nearly as good in the morning.

As for docs, that is a pretty funny letter. I particularly like the part about, “we are surprised that such a significant impact on the countywide EMS system would be allowed to occur
without the input of the medical community and the public.”

I cain’t remember the pre-undertakers consulting the public before they duplicated, triplicated, quadruplicated, etc, hospitals, intensive care units, cat scans, maternity units, pathology labs, and any number of other redundant, price multiplying facilities around the valley. (Maybe they mistook hypo-critic for hippocratic when they took the oath.)

Sounds to me like they are sore that they found a cookie jar that had someone’s hand in it other than their own.

City Watch:
It is true that Boise Fire was offered the opportunity to have their paramedics work on the ambulances with Ada County paramedics so that they could obtain more experience in spending additional time with the patients, caring for them during transport. Ada County offered TO PAY for these positions so the fire dept would have occured no out of pocket cost. Meridian Fire jumped at the chance but the offer from Ada County stipulated that both Meridian City and Boise had to accept, not just one. Boise Fire turned up their nose and said no way. It would have been a great opportunity to get additional patient care experience to medics that currently get very little. It also would have gone a long way in building a better working relationship with the filed crews from fire and Ada County. Too bad someone was more set on taking over and doing it all themselves.

TO: AYBASI
Please stay on task. This issue is ALL the result of Mayor Beiter and Dennis Doan trying to initiate a service that 1)Did not have ANY public comment and information 2) Did not have any Medical comment or input 3) Did not have any way to justify this recommendation (see previous BG comment on SB1108). There has been NO comment from Mayor Bieter or Chief Doan on this. HOWEVER, there has been comment from the 1 source that should be noted: The Medical Community. While you show clear disrespect for them in your comments, it’s their opinion that should matter. You clearly have no idea what they do and/or the hospital creditation that they need to uphold. ACEMS assist them in this and we highly respect them for what they do. That’s why WE are accountable. As far as your ealier comments:
1) Your comment on taxes is unbelievable. Even if our economy was better, your comments are so Left-field that ANY person NOT affilated with the Fire service would be upset.
2) “Meat wagon.” Wow. This shows the difference on how we treat and consider our patients. This should also show how ‘others’ view patients.
3) Quality? How’s bout this. Fire personnal not recognizing 1) Pt #1 in bradycardia 2) Pt #2 in symtomatic V-tach 3) Pt #3 Intubation without ANYTHING else having been done (including CPR, IV, or Defib pads on) 4)Pt #4 Being unable to recall electrode placement for 12-lead assessment 5) Pt #5 Not holding C-spine on a fall pt with positive LOC. 6) Pt #6 Not holding C-spine on a motorcycle accident with mental status changes.
4) Disrespect. Clearly you did not attend the EMSS meetings. You have not seen that our director has tried multiple different approaches for all the Fire departments to unify with EMS for a County-wide system.
Until the taxpaying citizens step up and demand a unified, single system approach to EMS delivery (State-wide), they will continue to suffer financially from their respective Fire departments.
FYI–Argue all you want. I’m done. 🙂

WOW I can’t believe I actually just wasted five minutes of my evening scanning over this crap. I have to say what I was told is true regarding the postings on this site!!!! The only people reading these posts are either working for the fire dept or ACEMS personnel. Over the past year I have overheard the occasional conversations about some of the comments on this site regarding the fire dept. I can now say after reading the prior postings on here that there are not only a select group of ACEMS personnel angry with the world, but there is also a group willing to make up complete lies just for the sake of thinking someone is actually listening to them. First off you should take a look at your own dept, instead of continuously talking sh#@ about all the fire dept’s around here!!! But then again as I have been told once or twice before you are the “best ambulance drivers in the world” so maybe you can talk sh#@!!!!!!!!!!!!! When you have a VERY, and I say VERY high percentage of employees showing up at stations, and continuously asking fire personnel “when is BFD finally going to take over EMS.” I think there might be a slight problem. I’m sure someone will write back a comment saying, Oh i’m sure that isn’t happening, but trust me it is!!!!! Now if you are one of the select few medics that are actually oblivious to this, maybe there is a reason???? Yeah exactly, think about it for a second!!!!!!!!!! Well I guess I could say more but I can’t be bothered to type anything else this evening. If I was to try and answer all the lies being posted I would be here all night, and even then nobody who cares would be reading them>>>>>>>>>>

I’m getting the feel that BFD is going to push forward with this despite growing public opposition. Maybe they hope if they can get the cat out of the bag ASAP (before public hearing, etc), it will never be placed back in.

I urge the public who don’t want wasteful tax spending and duplication of an ALREADY EXISTING ambulance to call their senators, their counsel-people, the paper, whoever, and let them know NOW.

I have to assume that the BFD can buy trucks and hire ambulance crews with same capabilities as can county EMT.

I have to assume that the 911 dispatcher can alert the a BFD ambulance just as easily as they can the current EMT crews.

I have to assume that if the County discontinues one EMT crew for every crew the BFD starts, there will be no duplication of services.

Finally, provided the wages of the BFD-Ambulance crews are the same as the current EMT crews, there will be no tax increase.

Achieving those few things seem simple enough that it begs the question: Why all the drama?

Sounds to me like some EMTers are afraid of losing their cushy gigs. And, just maybe, theirs are gigs that should be lost.

James….It sounds as if you work in the fire department or have fire department experience….I would appreciate an opinion from a person with your experience. Maybe you could answer my questions.

1. When a Fire department transports people how does it work when all resources are required to handle a situation (example: the Oregan Trail Fire)?

2. Could you please give an example or two of the untruths which have been mentioned on the blog. I would appreciate knowing what may be suspect.

Thank You.

Casual Observer: I appreciate what you are saying and you bring up valid points. Based on Internet resources, I do know starting salaries of the fire departments are more than those of Ada County. I have been trying to gather as much information as I can. When I spoke with representatives at city hall and asked them if taxes would be going up to pay for a fire department ambulance, one women told me no because the fire department would be billing people for services rendered. I just want to make sure…right now, the fire department is funded only through taxes, correct? Granted I know this women was a public rep at city hall and not a Fire Department personnel, howerver it sounds as if they will beginto bill people for services just like the county does. Can anyone shed light on that. Perhaps anyone with Fire Department experience?
One last question….there has been a grwt deal of mention about “duplication of service”. If there is already an existing ambulance, any agency attempting to start their own would be duplicting service…right? What else is involved when people mention “duplication of service”?

Thank You.

A casual observation on duplication of services.

It take two to duplicate a service such as ambulance. The city may start it, by adding ambulances where they already existed. However, the county perpetuates the duplication it if they continue a service when it is no longer needed.

Case in point. As Boise and the other cities grow they increase the size of there various police departments. As they do so, the county can reduce the number of sheriffs. Service is maintained and duplication is minimized even though there are overlapping jurisdictions.

I don’t see any reason the same model cannot apply to ambulances with the cities handling urban service if they choose, and the county handling rural service.

For all the vitriol dripping from the posts of affected parties above, I have yet to hear a legitimate management or financial reason against BFD ambulances. People may or may not like the Mayor or the Chief, or BFD or whomever. However, it all boils down to management, and it can be done.

EDITOR NOTE–Not sure, but I doubt if the Sheriff’s patrol division has been reduced due to Boise and Meridian annexations. HE provides coverage to Eagle and Kuna on a contract, but Eagle has deferred payments at present. Everyone who lives in Boise, Meridian, or Garden City also lives in Ada County and they can’t get the sheriff to respond, but they also can’t prohibit him if he wishes to claim the jurisdiction. In short, he needs that city revenue to cover the county–most of which (geographically) has no tax base…same holds true for EMS.

City Watch… Sorry about that, Type1-Type6 are Engince Classifications according to NIMS (National Incident Command System).
I’ll try to summarize my thoughts on this.

I think this is an attempt by Chief Doan to take control of EMS in Ada Couty. Bosie Fire is the largest career fire department in Idaho and one of the few to have “In House” ALS Ambulance Service. Others departments in the state come to mind. Nampa, Caldwell, Twin Falls do not provide als ambulance service but Nampa Fire, like Boise Fire, has Paramdic Engines. Several years ago Nampa Fire went the round with Canyon Co. EMS over who’s paramedics would do patient care, they finally ironed that out.

I don’t see a problem with a Fire Organization providing ALS Transport, in fact I think Idaho Falls Fire and Pocatello Fire Departments are the best since they were the ALS transport leaders in the state back to the 70’s, IFFD had the first Paramedics in the state, Pocatello Fire followed thereafter.

Obviously this situation in Ada County appears to a “Duplication” of services but I think the way Doan is going about it “muddies” the water. Doan wants his own ALS Transport then why just start with bids for ONE (1) ambulance, its like he starting slow to keep under the radar on city costs. I think Doan and Dave’s “Backroom” antics on this situation is a bunch of crap, they’re keeping details quite when they should be upfront with the city councilors and taxpayers.

If Doan wants to start his own als transport service he’s going to run into wals, he just can’t go out and hire 48 qualified paramedics (8 AB’S with 2 PM’s per shift for 3 shifts and 8 is definatley a bare minimum number. Another thought: Whats Doan going to do if after the next election the mayor/council is/are tight with taxes and Doan’s hanging out there with some ambulances and not enough staff to run them?, Political Friendship only lasts so long. Doan could be standing in the cold with his Di…uhh keys to his rigs in hand.

ACEMS sees Boise Fire as a threat to their existence, and funding. I’m not going to take sides as to which agency has the better paramedics. “Oh Sh..” incidents have been reported in posts here, by ACEMS people, ok maybe they did happened but if they did why didn’t those who claim to know about the instances do something to correct them?, ie report the incidents to state ems licencure board (that includes ACEMS Paramedics and local ER Docs).

I think it will take Boise Fire 2 years to get a adequate als transport service. Idaho Falls Fire provides ALS Ambulance Service to a population excess of 100K, with 5 ALS AB’s covering Bonneville County and contract to cover portions of Jefferson and Bingham Counties. IFFD gets money from Bonneville, Bingham and Jefferson counties to provide ALS Transport. Maybe this is what Doan’s future vision is for Boise Fire?.

There are numerous factors for Boise City, Ada County and other cities in Ada County to consider. Elected Officials, Chiefs, Directors are going to have to stake some political and finacial capitol on this dog fight. Stay with the staus quo? or let Boise Fire run the show?. Personally I think Boise Fire is behind the power curve on this, they have a lot to do before going into als transport and they better have their ducks in a tight row before it happens.

In the end I see a new Mayor in Boise, possibly a new Fire Chief, and ACEMS still providing ALS Transport to Ada County and Boise City.