So, is it better to stay away when you have no facts to present? Or, show up and demonstrate for all to see that your position is based solely on emotion?

BFD wins this round.

Nodnarb,

Boise has clearly stated through all of this that they have facts and they have an entire plan on why they should do this. They state it’s because they can do it smarter, faster, cheaper. So why wouldn’t they show up to prove all these facts and numbers that they have. I would think them not showing up shows that they responded with emotion.

BFD loses this round!!!!

Interested, The Fire “Administration” is the same as the Union. Doan is past president of the BFD Local, Deputy Chief Oldenburg is also a past president. DC Oldenburg is now speaking to the media for the department. Where is Captain…I mean Chief Doan?.

Maybe BFD is looking at doing the “Carl Holmes Solution”. In the late 70’s Okalhoma City Assistant Fire Chief Carl Holmes, took some of his fire personnel with management experience/degrees out of the department ranks and “Loaned” them to other city departments to help those department increase their management skills. What Chief Holmes acually did was put his own guys in other departments as spies to see what the problems were then came up with solutions that he took to the city council and showed that the Fire Department could manage other departments. OKC FD straightened out other departments before turning operations back to new department heads.

After reading the BFD Admin page on their web site I only found that the Chief of EMS has any advanced degrees in management…So much for the Carl Holmes Solution” in Boise.

Wow, I guess the two calls that the reporter from channel 7 responded to with Ada County gives an accurate account of the response times that Ada County and Fire has.

Kudos to channel 7’s Kacee Murray for obtaining the much needed data that she did on those two calls compared to the hundreds of calls in a given week……interesting?. I can now rest easy!!!

There is a woman down the lane from me who has some kind of recurring heart problem. Goes to hospital a couple time a year. When its time to go, she calls a cab. Says she doesn’t trust any of the ambulance attendants. Says the only thing she wants out of an ambulance is a quick trip to the right address. No curbside clinic for her. No Dr. Welby on wheels. Claims the docs at the hospital are bad enough, but the 3-week emt grads (where the attitude goes in before the degree goes on) manning the trucks are pure terror.

I used to think that the heart problem had starved her brain and she was whacko as well. After reading the posts on this block, most of them from the county ambulance gang, I think she got it about right. The city’s action is bad. But I’ve seen enough attitude on the part of the county and emt to last me a lifetime. If the need comes, I’m calling a cab.

With Boise~Angelesization / Gentrification and it’s accompanying 5-Minute-Collective-Consciousness Transient Nature comes a populace (as opposed to a “citizenry”) that couldn’t give a half-a-hoot about anything that isn’t hitting them over the head at any given moment.

And the charlatans within Boise’s Shadow Government like it that way!

Boise blew it years ago, and has settled into well earned homogeneous mediocrity.

Don’t kill the messenger… I don’t like it either!

Well attended meeting? Handful of concerned citizens? The room holds 250 people, by the way a number set by your local fire department to keep all safe, but 60 people showed? Not as big of a hot topic as one would be led to believe. I realize that this topic has had more comments then any other ground breaking issue from the “Guardian” but, they are all conversations/arguments between the same people. I too could post 50 different but the same arguments and never make a point too. Again if this is a huge issue why was it attended by

1 Ada county commissioner who is concerned about revenue? And who if she isn’t careful will stir too many pots to move her governors race forward.

1 Doctor from the group of how many that supposedly signed the letter?

And 1 nurse who stated to KTVB that she “consults fire departments” and stated “Every system I have worked with is separate, they are not firefighters and paramedics, I have not seen that work well,” Newburn said. If those are the systems that you have worked with then have you seen it work at all lady?

Furthermore, I have it on good authority that if Boise Fire adds one unit to the city this will allow the county the ability to better staff one unit in a currently lesser covered area say Meridian, Eagle or even Star we all know Kuna doesn’t want to play. Thus allowing all of the citizens of the “County” better coverage. Oh, but wait the money is in Boise sorry Star! Apparently response times only matter if they are money making propositions.

To the taxpayers of Boise City…

Both the Fire Department and the Union have your best interests (financially and quality of medical service) in mind.

While it would have been entertaining for some to have firefighters and paramedics “duke it out” in public…it does not further the goal of providing the best possible service in the most efficient manner.

Pre-hospital care in care is far too important to reduce the argument from a well-developed, researched, and thought-out proposal to an emotional, misinformed, and sometimes distracting plea for citizen involvement by paramedics concerned about their future.

Paramedic friends that I have worked closely with over the years, I understand and sympathize with your concern but, the firefighters, fire department, and “union” is not your enemy.

What is in process, and what has occurred is the result of Ada County and Ada County EMS flatly refusing to collaborate and agree on how we (EMS service providers) should adapt the system to meet the changes and challenges that we face.

If we remember correctly, two independent citizen committees have stated that EMS should merge into the fire service, because that is this most efficient system to provide the service. This is why the national trend is toward fire service EMS. Our EMS system is one of the expensive systems in the Pacific Northwest, although you would not recognize that unless you received a bill for service.

To the citizens that I have proudly served over the years and are concerned…be assured your firefighters are following a path where we can both operate fiscally responsibly and maintain the quality of care you have recognized in your numerous postings.

Unfortunately for all of us, any attempt at making positive changes in the EMS system has been, and still being thwarted by Ada County EMS and Ada County.

They’re argument is to maintain the status quo, and rather than meet, collaborate, and collectively agree on possible changes. They (and a few un-named bloggers here) would rather stir up emotional appeals, provide mis-information, and distracting comments about the union and its possible motivations.

I am sorry for this airing of dirty laundry in public. Rest assured that the firefighters remain focused on the delivery of quality patient care.

I am sure that in the future those who have expressed concern (whether doctors, hospitals, paramedics, firefighters, politicians, or even bloggers) will be able to evaluate the research, see that this (buying an ambulance) is only a step in the process, and hopefully analyze an agreement between Boise City Fire and Ada County EMS.

Leadership is needed on this most vital service issue. We will all have to wait and see if “leadership” shows up from all sides.

I think Doc’nBox puts it correctly about why they did not have to show up. This was not a mandatory meeting.

That said, Boise and BFD should come clean sooner than later about the plans. Response times and cost(taxes) are the ultimate questions that still need answers.

DOC,
Then they need to go to the people that do and find an outlet to get all this information (that they appear to be hiding) out. Set up a town hall meeting somewhere else after letting the people in on the secret.

Sounds like there are a few firefighters on this blog and one Union president as well.

They feel the need to respond to the blog including the union president but are unwilling to take 2 hours out of their day to answer some questions.

I also don’t think the BG would have continued holding the meeting if they knew the other side wasn’t showing which leads me to believe that the told the BG they would be there.

So as Spongebob said I think that was there whole intention. Trying to show that the public doesn’t care about the topic. But the fact of the matter is is that the fire department is hiding it from the public and unwilling to respond to any of them when the Ada County Paramedics will.

Besides channel 7, 2, and the Boise weekly was there as well. Does nobody watch the news or read local news papers either.

Nemo has claimed that Meridian Fire has been “interested” in the ACP offer – which by the way was non-negotiable, meaning the terms were set entirely by Troy Hagan. I still have not seen or heard that Meridian is on board with this plan. So where do you get your info from Nemo? How about it BG, have you ever asked to look at the plan Hagan has been touting?

Also, the BG has failed to turn the spotlight on ACP. How about some exploration into the financial relationship with their doc? Not only does the Dr. receive thousands of taxpayer dollars from ACP, he also is biased by his relationship with certain paramedics. BG considered him an unbiased source representing the thoughts of ER Docs across the valley. It just isn’t so.

Finally, please stop referring to Chief Doan as our past union president. He never held that post. He was a former lobbyist at the State level. Attack his level of education, but know that leadership is derived from more than a degree on the wall. Ask the many fire chiefs around the valley and previous Boise Chiefs who have never had an advanced degree. ACP seems to be good at bringing things into this discussion which are contrary to their “we just want to work together” philosophy.

Jake,

Although I appreciate the tone of you response I think that most people in this situation do believe that they are doing what is best (i.e GWB going to war). But I also think that when the BFD does not have support from the State, County, Hospitals, MD’s or the public as far as I can tell you might just be wrong and fairly jaded into thinking that what you are doing is best.

If it is then you should talk to us and get support from all the listed entities and then do this. Don’t just force thing and then tell us that you have our best interest at heart because I personnel do not believe it.

If you did all this shady politics stuff would not be necessary.

I have been keeping up with theses posts (obviously) and have yet to see any real informative responses from the what would appear to be fire fighters. All they can say is that we are right and they are wrong. Many of the post against the fire department (some with the same we are right they are wrong attitude) do appear to be more fact based and informative.

I have yet to be educated in anyway by fire department but I have been told that they have my best interest in mind.

I am not convinced as of yet.

Jake,

Mark hit it on the head. ACP and even more importantly, the BOCC has expressed time and time again a willingness to discuss county wide consolidation.

Let me say it again…..COUNTY WIDE consolidation. Not fragmenting the current EMS system peice by peice into 7 different fire departments.

But that would mean you wouldnt be the “City of Boise FD” anymore…Your chief wouldnt be THE chief, neither would MFD’s chief, nor KUNA’s chief, nor EAGLEs chief, etc etc etc…..

Spongebob….

Interesting concept. Seems to me to be a FIX to a problem that doesnt exist in the north end.

it also requires require more honesty and transparency by the FD, but interesting concept none the less. The only thing it doesnt do is put (to use BFDs own comments) medics that need experiance on the ambulance with a more experianced ACP medic, like the current proposal does. That would be “better’ because that would be better patient care…

What it does do is generate funding for BFD it doesnt have currently….hmmmmmm.

That said, if BFD can come to the table honestly, with transparency, and with out trying to make a power grab, without trying to dictate terms and set them selves up as surpreme commander in the city of Boise….I amn sure that there would be some kind of new model worked out. One that would morelikely looklike the one already proposed..but one that would be mutualy agreable.

But so far this time, transparency and honesty and fairness havent been hallmarks of BFDs dealings with ACP, the city council or the taxpayers.

Let me counterpose a question… Why is it you BFD’ers are so opposed to working with ACP Paramedics on the same car? Where is the logic there?

BG ,

YOU ARE SO RIGHT, we do need a PUBLIC SAFETY OMBUDSMAN. I am sure ACP would work with him…but would BFD???

Nemo (Steve) and Mark,

You are creative in the arguments you make, but leave so much out. I am sorry that you feel left out of the discussion but Dir. Hagen and Chief Doan have been having for the last year.

Lisa, the proposal for enhanced ALS services by the fire department started way before 1992. Then Boise Fire Chief Renn Ross delivered a proposal to City Council for ALS Engines and was met by the same mis-direction and mis-information.

Adding ALS services to the Fire Department has been part of the Boise City Strategic Plan for over 10 years. There have been Paramedics working for the fire department for over 5 years. I think the argument again is that the system has lacked the leadership to make significant change.

Putting a Boise Fire Paramedic on a Ada County ambulance is not a serious proposal. The Fire Department already offers Ada County EMS stations to house ambulances around the city at no cost (collaboration?). Should we provide manpower to Ada County EMS as well?

Jake, I know about the history of EMS in the BFD, I know the former Chief of EMS, Dennis Johnson, very well.

OK Maybe its just me but I think John Boros was the best Chief…RIP Uncle John. the Bugle Still Plays.

Picayune,
Are you a La. transient? Just curious from your Picayune reference. Anyhow, I think your concerns about development should be laid squarely at the feet of the county commissioners who have never seen a “planned development” that they haven’t approved. If there is one area where the Boise Council succeeds, its in the push for in-fill development which does not stretch existing services…like fire, ems, and police. And I know there are a lot of Growthaphobes on this site, but I have always been a believer in the notion that a community that does not grow – dies. Look at all the communities in Michigan. Companies leaving faster that Albertsons and Micron. Jobs whisked away over seas. How do we keep up without government involvement? Will the private sector really solve the infrastructure needs that comes with the tempered growth our community needs to survive? Just asking.

noname:

You make an awesome point! Someone has actually posted a site with everyone’s earnings and it can be viewed here:

ouridaho.com

I find it odd that the fire chief himself makes more than the mayor by more than $8 an hour. Your tax dollars at work.