I was doing some research on the trolley. More to the point, since the mayor is intent on selling this folly on grounds of stimulating urban development, meaning no ridership studies required, I was searching to see if there were any developers, anywhere, who would not build unless the city, any city, first installed a trolley.

The answer is yes, I found a few who thought that the success of their low income housing project would be improved with the presence of a trolley. Hmmm, I am not sure turning downtown Boise into a mecca for the urban poor is exactly what the mayor had in mind. As they say, be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.

Anyway, I stumbled across a group in Seattle who is trying, like Boise, to get a trolley underway. Theirs is the South Lake Union Trolley. You got it. They want to initiate, SLUT. (Check it out you can not make this stuff up.)

In that vein, I hereby christen the soon to be real, Boise Urban Trolley. Let’s hear it for the BUT.

EDITOR NOTE–And what will you call acrynom for the Terminal for that system?

What a farce and do we need to know more to get rid of this mayor, Darth Daver, the black cloud of bad things to come.
Darth Daver need to have a tattoo on the palm of his hand like the chopper builder Jessie James has that reads, “pay up sucker”.

Ohh what is Boise coming to. I get what they are trying to acomplish. But downtown Boise reminds me of the whole keeping up with the Jones. Most stores downtown are not making money except for some resturants and bars. And don’t even ask the stores in BODO how they are doing…. But even then, we had our share of closing this last year. I just don’t see downtown Boise following the same paths as our regional neighbors. Yes a free trolley downtown would be nice, but why do we have to start with such a large, go nowhere project? I’m all for public transportation, but let’s bootstrap the sucker and start with wheeled vehicles at a fraction of the cost.

Sis,

As a card carrying member of the maligned group, I will be glad to stop acting like a twelve year old, when the pro-folly troupe quit acting like intellectual two year olds predisposed to thinking every shiny trinket dangled above their cradle is beneficial.

Saying that we need a trolley because a nice developer has yet to find a trolley based economic development project that has failed, is naive at best. Shouldn’t you at least ask how those areas would have developed in the absence of a trolley?

For instance, for the last decade or so, Idaho, Treasure Valley, and Boise, have routinely ranked among the 5 fastest growing economies in the nation. That you will recall, was accomplished without a trolley.

Now you, and the other Pro-BUTs, would have us believe that, if we are to compete with the places with trolleys that we have been routinely beating for the past decade, we need a trolley.

Seems to me that the argument is more consistent if one suggests that their trolley systems have been holding them back and if we want to continue to beat them for another decade, we should avoid the mistakes they made by investing in dubious transportation projects.

Folks, you’re confusing mass transit with economic development. The trolley will do diddly to solve traffic problems other than giving reasons for getting folks out of their cars. Sounds great for everybody. But it will bring people downtown. And that’s the goal. The comparison to light rail systems is apples to watermelons.

With regard to traffic systems, there are a few that have failed or are subsidized heavily. From the people in the know, one should not even be contemplated until we reach the million person mark for the area. Yes the one in Portland is suffering but the new one in SLC is way beyond expectations already. The idea of buying 240 buses is ludicrous in light of current ridership. Until there is incentive for people to get out of their cars, its a futile endeavor. But confusing the two just muddies the water to accomplish your political objectives.

As far as the Kenosha and Little Rock lines, your assertion of ridership as a measure of success is misguided for the reasons set forth above. I found the following assessment:

The successful project in Kenosha is the one that Burnett and other backers cite most often, given that the city’s population and Greeley’s are roughly equal. They also point to the economic boon that resulted when Little Rock finished a trolley system that looped into the northern section of the city.

“Little Rock is a really excellent example of how these projects can contribute to economic development,” Burnett said. “It’s revolutionized north Little Rock. I know that they are also talking about linking a campus with downtown.”

I was initially skeptical of this proposal but after talking to people who know more than I, I’m more convinced its a good idea especially because of the stimulus money. I’m listening but you’re not swaying me.

I’ve been watching this debate for quite some time now. The Folly backers has had a curious smell to it that was hard to place. Manure, yes. But, the exact kind had been alluding me.

Then, this morning, noting the reaction I got from the horses when I bumped into the grain bin, it came to me – Cargo Cult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult

Paraphrasing here, Cargo Cults, like horses, only see the superficial exterior of a process without having any understanding of the underlying substance. The error of logic made by the folly backers, and horses, consists of mistaking a condition (i.e., trolleys and feed bins.) associated with wealth or corn, for a sufficient condition for wealth or corn to materialize, thereby reversing the causation.

In english, or horseglish, Wealthy cities may foster trolleys, but trolleys do not foster wealthy cities.

Bieter and Company – 21st Century Cargo Cultists

Just went to the web and looked up the 10 fastest cars and then I looked up cars with hybrid technology.

Not a single match.

So much for the new technology is better hypothesis.

Logic much?

I stopped at the show & tell on the trollys. Ihad several questions to ask them, 1. how sure are they the funds (federal) will be given to them. Answer I got was, they couldn`t be sure.

2. where was the electric coming from and how much. Answer: why of course Idaho power, cost is not known at this time.

3.Who will pay for the maintaince of said trolly. Answer: still working that out.

4. who will be paying the wages of the persons that driving the trollys. Answer: the city of course.

I wasn`t very pleased with the answers I received from those folks. I also asked what the ACHD had for imput on the plan & was told they haven`t gotten that far along as yet.

I don`t think a fish market smells as bad as this Idea the mayor has.

There is one major problem that no one has addressed. I keep hearing people on the news saying that there will be public hearings and the the public will get to comment.

The problem is that even if there are public hearings the mayor and city council have already made up their minds and your testimony will not matter. I have a friend that works at city hall and they say that the issue is already decided. PERIOD. It is just how the mayor and council can create “creative financing” to pull it off.

What citizens should do is write or email the White House and Congress and tell them we do not want the “stimulus” money. With no fed money the path that the mayor and council are on comes to an end.

So you can show up and testify all you want – but it will do no good.

EDITOR NOTE–THIS is why we need a vote of the people. Even an advisory vote that city council and mayor agree to honor….the GUARDIAN will gladly write the ballot question language.

Below is the mind set of the people that are running our city. We could go beyond the city but the words below are perfect for Darth Daver and his marry group.
from Atlas Shrugged, p. 413
When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion — when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing — when you see money flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors — when you see that men get richer by graft and pull than by work, and your laws don’t protect you against them, but protect them against you — when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice — you may know that your society is doomed.

FACT CHECK REQUESTED: This is how I understand it. Sorry this a bit off topic (kinda) but could the editor speak to how the valley vehicle pollution testing seems to be just another tax. They’ve been giving us all a $15/yr sniff test with no results. Do they publish how many vehicles don’t pass? I’d really like to know that number. I bet the number is real low. And they get to keep driving anyway after only an effort repair the issue. (A second failure does not mean parking it) Maybe I got it all wrong, but it seems to me we do have too much pollution, but are simply taking money from people rather than actually reducing the LA like pollution.

Seems to me that “open house” is for those who have promoted it. “Open meeting” would of let the opposing view be heard.

Now they have hired a $90,000 consultant to market a trolley that doesn’t even have funding yet. It now obvious that Team Dave doesn’t even consider the public’s views in the decision making process.

Sis’s last post is the most well thought argument for the trolley. I think more people are upset not to the novelty but to the circumvention of them as voters in making such a financial decision.

I guess if City Hall ramrod’s this through, I will be sponsoring the first Boise Booze Trolley Folly. I figure 15 or so bars in the 2.6 mile loop out to make for a fun Saturday afternoon.