City Government
Council-Citizen Meeting Place
October 16, 2009 
The GUARDIAN will use this headline and story as the “meeting place” for ideas and opinions during the Boise City Council race that is currently underway.
Whether you are a candidate with an idea or a citizen with an opinion, you can share it here in the comment section. We will try to keep this space prominent on the blog, so you can always find it near the top of the roster and not have to refer back to other posts on specific topics–but of course you can still post comments to anything at any time.
With both candidates and voters weighing in as they have, we figure this is THE place to have your views read and reported in the legacy medias as well as creating the “buzz” on the street and in coffee shops. Have at it!
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Comments & Discussion
Comments are closed for this post.
Oct 11, 2009, 3:08 pm
1400 applications were received for the 1.5 billion available in TIGER (Obama train stimulus)funds. Boise is competing with those applications. Total requests
were for 59 billion in funds (twice what was spent between 1970 and
2000). What makes Boise think it will win over Washington DC,
Chicago, Los Angeles? And, why did the incumbents put out a request for proposal (RFP), $90,000 on marketing a product which doesn’t even exist? Fiscal irresponsibility?
Oct 11, 2009, 3:10 pm
Is it really OK to spend $25K on an open house for a bad idea and then
to quadruple down on $90K on a marketing blitz for the same bad idea?
It sounds like the City has too much money and should be paying for
lower taxes not more programs.
I’m going to city hall to find money for tax cuts not streetcars.
Oct 11, 2009, 6:00 pm
The 2004 Portland streetcar cost $63 million per mile, twice what is estimated for Boise. The city council president says the streetcar is a good idea. Does she think that 2.3x $63 Million is a good idea?
That’s $144 Million, almost an entire budget year for Boise.
It is time to bring fiscal responsibility back to the Boise City Council!
Oct 11, 2009, 6:03 pm
Federal state and local governments have spent more than $25 Billion to establish or expand rail transit infrastructure in sixteen major US metropolitan areas between 1970 and 2000 (three decades). Billions more have been invested to maintain and improve existing rail transit lines. Despite the significant infrastructure improvements, transit ridership has been declining rapidly. The fraction of urban commuters has declined in half from .12 to .06 over three decades. That’s a decrease by half in 30 years.
It is time to figure out what a transit system has to provide to get people to use it.
Oct 11, 2009, 6:11 pm
If mass transit is so great, why don’t people ride the bus? It is past time to find out what changes need to be made to the bus system to get people to ride. If it is the better alternative, people will ride. If the $25,000 spent to ‘promote’ the non-existent trolley had been spent on figuring out what will get people to ride the bus, wouldn’t that make more sense?
Oct 11, 2009, 8:58 pm
Daniel, take a deep breath and realx. I can’t belive for a moment rational thinking people will allow Mayor Bieter to actually execute his trolly folly.
Right now it is all jawboning. People need to lodge their thoughts with city hall and demand a vote of the people on this flight of fancy. Elected officials at all levels are going to ruin this country at the rate we are moving down the unsecured debt highway.
Oct 11, 2009, 9:49 pm
The streetcar is a complete waste of taxpayer money and is only being wanted by the CCDC and Mayor in order to drive up taxes and lease rates.
One of the biggest issues with the proposal is not just the initial route, but the three proposed future expansions that have received very little attention by the media. If we put in the initial phase at $60+ million plus the 20-year downtown LID tax, then the city has gone down a path of no retreat. They must expand the system or admit it was a failure. The future expansions will have to be paid for in tomorrows dollars – meaning more expensive – and both the Broadway and Capital phases have the same problem the downtown phase has – no development of the kind they are claiming will take place because they are either already developed or development is already planned for those areas. However, they WILL put in more LID taxes in those areas which will drive up lease rates and discourage the existing property tenants.
This is a massive flaw in the Boise plan compared to other streetcar cities like Little Rock, which added their streetcar as part of an overall $300 million district marketplace – and even then their streetcar was not added until 2004 even though the market district development started in 1996.
The city has also made some of what I think are outrageous claims in their grant application, claiming that 36,000 people are employed downtown and that 1200 people a day will ride the streetcar. The Little Rock and Kenosha streetcars average about 300 a day each or maybe a little more than that even though they have been running for 5 and 9 years respectively. The 36,000 figure would represent one-fifth of the entire workforce in Ada county – so I don’t know how they arrived at that number.
The Boise streetcar has some pretty heavy Washington influence since Minnick co-sponsored the bill that would designate stimulus funds for it, and Simpson, Crapo, and Risch have all climbed on board as well.
The people in Boise really need to contact the City Council and Mayors office and get this stopped.
A lot more info at
http://noboisestreetcar.blogspot.com
EDITOR NOTE–With regard to the Capitol Blvd. area, much of that is owned by government (BSU, library, JD Park, ACHD, Depot) and no development or tax base will result.
Oct 11, 2009, 11:58 pm
Will the incumbents regularly ride the streetcar? How often will they
ride it? And, do they currently ride the bus system regularly? Will
they vote for something that they do not use? If they’re not going to
use it regularly, why do they think that others will ride it
regularly?
Oct 12, 2009, 12:01 am
According to a national study of urban rail, “Public transit often acts as a poverty magnet.” When urban crime rises, middle-class households are less willing to use this option downtown. Will incumbent politicians ride a streetcar that attracts crime? Will anyone?
Oct 12, 2009, 7:44 am
Portland’s light rail system cost $63 million a mile! What are the elected leaders of Boise thinking? We have other opportunites to spend that money in more productive projects.
Oct 12, 2009, 11:50 am
Did Bieter know that Brian Cronyn worked on his campaign? How much money did Cronyn give to Bieter’s campaign? Will the council collectively approve an insider deal in the near future? $90 thousand for Brian Cronyn could staff two or three jobs for police officers.
This is money to ‘promote’ an idea that is just pie in the sky, and a bad idea at that. Let’s spend the money on real needs now. Public safety, sidewalks, streetlights anyone?
Oct 13, 2009, 9:50 am
The trolley is just one (high-profile) issue that’s currently being dealt with by the City Council. At the risk of digressing, I’d like to ask any candidate who would care to respond:
1) In your mind, what are the 3 most critical quality-of-life issues facing Boise citizens, THAT THE CITY COUNCIL CAN IMPACT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER?
2) TRANSPORTATION: What level of support should the City be giving to public transportation? (I’m personally envisioning buses.) And to “alternative transportation” in general? What will Boise’s “transportation mix” be 20 years from now? Would you support local-option taxes to fund public transportation? Would you personally vote in favor of, say, a .5% sales tax, or a $10 registration fee increase, to support public transportation?
3) GROWTH: Going beyond the worn-out clichés like “quality growth” and “intelligent growth,” how do you balance: a) property owners’ rights with b) growth-management issues such as restrictions on how private property can be developed, easements, eminent domain, etc?
Oct 13, 2009, 11:37 am
Thanks to bikeboy for pointing out the trolly is not the only thing to think about before voting. Also, Mr. Dunham if you can’t even spell a person’s name right after he’s been in the headlines all week, why should we take you seriously?
Oct 13, 2009, 2:15 pm
There’s a bikeGIRL?!! (Awesome!)
Bikegirl, are you suggesting a candidate is off your list if he misspells a name on a blog-type response? Wow – you are TOUGH!
Oh – and “trolley” – as has been in the headlines all week – is spelt with an “e”! (Of course, you’re not running for office, either.)
(-;
Have a great day! Be careful on that bike!
Oct 13, 2009, 7:24 pm
Bikeboy-Here is a snapshot view of my attitude to deal with the questions you asked about.
TOP THREE ISSUES–
1) Spending. Each and every dollar that is spent must make as big on an impact as possible. Fiscal responsibility means if you watch after the nickels and dimes, the dollars will watch after themselves.
2) Transparent and Accountable Government. This requires citizens to be involved, but you will never catch me trying to sneak anything through. I will be looking for voter involvement and input. Obviously not everyone will get what they want, but I want public hearings to happen before decisions are made, not after.
3) The CCDC and it’s scope. How can this be utilized and leveraged to serve all of Boise? How it is working now, how can it be improved, or is it time to disband it and utilize a different format? This must be explored and acted upon.
TRANSPORTATION
There has been a large flaw in most transportation studies. It turns out most people support mass transit “FOR THE OTHER GUY” so I can drive my car with less traffic. It is time to figure out how to make our bus system usable and leverage the assets we have to better serve the public. If it were usable, would the people actual then use it? I am open to alternative transportation that is cost effective and will be used. Something needs to be done about the large volume of commuters coming to Boise in the AM and going back to Canyon county in the PM. I would try to avoid local option taxes until it is the absolute last resort. I think we are taxed enough already. The spending must be frugal, controlled, and prioritized to find any waste that could be better used.
GROWTH
Annexation is something that needs some serious examination. There is a comprehensive plan that includes an area of impact that has been utilized to cash in on increased tax receipts after the growth has happened. I believe the citizens of Boise deserve to have the services a city provides, before the city looks to annex other areas. We need to find ways to streamline the approval process while making sure that the impact of a development is documented. Developers need to be encouraged to finish the development of areas in the city, and developers outside the city need to be encouraged to plan for incorporation into the city. The relationship with the Ada County Commissioners needs to be built to be more cooperative and transparent. Each situation needs to be discussed on it’s own merits, but the comprehensive plan should be the guide. If the comprehensive plan needs variances and special use permits, perhaps it is not such a good plan and should be revisited.
Oct 14, 2009, 3:16 pm
Paul
If you’re talking about the latest Portland LIGHT RAIL extension then yes it was costly – about $ 60 + million a mile. Salt Lake had a similar cost per mile with one of their light rail extensions. But the current downtown Boise proposal is for a STREETCAR not light rail. A streetcar is a close cousin to light rail but not the same thing.
The initial cost per mile for the Portland STREETCAR was in the $ 13 – 20 million per mile range depending on which source document you look at. Estimated cost for the proposed Boise streetcar is in the $ 45 – 65 million dollar range for 2.6 mile loop. That works out to about $ 17 – 25 million dollars a mile. And that’s just for the first phase! There are at least two more phases already being proposed – at about the same cost per mile.
When originally proposed the Boise streetcar was to be the only completely locally funded streetcar in the nation. CCDC was really proud of that fact at the time. However, that $ 65 million in local funds could have been used as match for more than $ 300 million in federal dollars (if that much were available). And that’s enough to purchase about 1,000 full size buses at today’s prices. Staggers the mind, doesn’t it? You’re right, what are they thinking?
Oct 14, 2009, 4:22 pm
I think the Mayor ought to fix the hole downtown first before digging an even bigger hole.
The streetcar is a ploy to get a new convention center(re?) so they can get someone to ride it.
I like progressive stuff but this is just plain stupid.
What about 2000 small busses? Or pay for an overhead express way on Front and Myrtle?
A jetpack for every citizen?
Rickshaws?
Baby taxis?
Tractors pulling hay rides?
A stable for horse commuters?
An airport shuttle?
More stables for bike commuters?
Oct 14, 2009, 9:56 pm
Note to voters: In case you aren’t aware, you can click on each candidate’s name by his comment and be taken directly to the candidate’s website, where his/her shortcomings and incomprehensible policy positions are on display for the whole world to see. In other words, it appears that these candidates are just as unacceptable as the incumbents.
I will likely boycott this election and continue to call for federal martial law in Boise because the mayor and city council operate as if public opinion and the laws of the State of Idaho are irrelevant and because the police department hasn’t been brought under civilian control and direction.
EDITOR NOTE–As a rule we don’t link to other sites, unless it has a direct connection to the comment or it is a politico currently running or in office. We figure it is worthwhile to allow them the link to share their views during this election period, however.
Oct 15, 2009, 12:41 am
Bikeboy:
The three most important quality of life issues are: the economic recession (which can only be solved by cutting burdens aka taxes on business), transportation (infrastructure improvements), and cost of living (also a tax/fee issue).
The answer is both to cut taxes and raise more money for transportation improvements. The only way to do this is to encourage growth through tax caps on property values and using a new form of URD as a dedicated vehicle for impact fees. I hope that is not too governmenteeze for you. Basically, I would like to tax at a much lower rate for improvements to properties and use that money exclusively for transportation improvements.
Oct 18, 2009, 10:23 am
I ditto ADR’s post on trolley rail.
Lucas Baumbach said:
“According to a national study of urban rail,
“Public transit often acts as a poverty magnet.” [THAT, Mr Baumbach, is a stinky, snobby, classist remark.]
He continues: “When urban crime rises, middle-class households are less willing to use this option downtown. Will incumbent politicians ride a streetcar that attracts crime? Will anyone?”
[Crime doesn’t necessarily go with poverty. Check out the rampant white-collar crime here and in the country at large.]
OK folks–since Portland has been mentioned, read this: My relatives in Portland just told me that crime on Portland’s famed mass transit rail system is so bad now that the city has to put cops on the trains. Rail cars cannot have a cop on each one. What if a cop isn’t in the car you are riding when some con tries to mug you? At least BUSES consist of only 1 car; and there is a driver who, one hopes, has a cop-caller to get rid of assholes and worse.
This whole rail fantasy is so utterly ridiculous there can be only one unstated reason for it: building up pressure for a new convention center, as dog said???
Back to buses:I won’t ride them here because the transit company does NOT provide shelters at bus stops. I refuse to stand out there in the rain,the freeze, the sleet or snow. If the fear is that bus shelters will be used by homeless, well they won’t be using them in the daytime; and if they are, one can always call the cops to get them out. Or, candidates– use some of the saved money from NOT doing the trolley-folly by hiring more regular street coppers.
Too much money in this town is spent on grandiose biz schemes, like the hole downtown… and not enough on making this city liveable for all, including senior people. About the only concession to senior people (who tend to be shunned whenever possible by the politicians) are the ADA-type corners for wheelchairs and the occasional handicap parking space. Well, seniors are not ALL on wheelchairs, but many of them no longer drive, either. Mass transit IS needed and it’s got to be buses, for safety, convenience, and taxpayer savings.
Oct 18, 2009, 10:29 am
Oh and another thing: I notice that the egregiously publicised candidate TJ Thomson has not posted HIS views on this blog. AND, has he anywhere said what his views are on the trolley-folly?
EDITOR NOTE– In defense of TJ. He has not only posted his views, he FAVORS a vote of citizens! Here is what he said:
“I have 3 major concerns with the Streetcar concept:
1) Cost – It will cost Boise business owners along the Streetcar line a large chunk of change during a difficult economy. I want to assure the impacts are offset by increased economic development as a result of the line.
2) Construction –I want to be sure construction of the line, if the project is approved, does not negatively affect the local economy during construction.
3) Cables – I love the present look and feel of our downtown. I realize cables above ground are more affordable, but they could potentially take away from the beauty of downtown Boise.
There are also positives to the prospect of a Boise Streetcar. The economic impacts have shown to be outstanding on businesses in many cities. This also could serve as the first phase of a future light rail system in the Boise Valley, which I support and believe is necessary to meet future demands. Public transportation alternatives lower the cost of living and reduce air pollution.
However, we are very early in the process. To take a stand now on the Streetcar is premature and would be a disservice to the citizens of Boise for several reasons:
1) The Economic and Engineering Feasibility Assessment has not yet been released (being conducted by a 35-member non-partisan task force of business, property, and community leaders – a committee of republicans, democrats, and those that will be directly impacted financially by the project).
2) We do not yet know if Boise will receive Federal funding for the project ($40 Million in TIGER funds from the Economic Stimulus Package).
3) We have not heard from the collective voice of the people. I support a vote by the citizens if it is held during a regularly scheduled election (so as to not cost tax-payers enormous amounts of money for a “special” election). Whether we collect input via a ballot vote or through hearings and surveys, I am adamant that we receive broad public input and opportunity for comment from Boise citizens before moving forward.
You can count on me to never take a “knee-jerk” approach on important issues, such as the Streetcar, before first getting ALL the facts and broad public input. My approach on the Council, should I be fortunate to be elected, will be to study, listen, learn and keep an open mind. My judgment is based on the long-term interest of Boise, not short-term political gain.”
EDITOR NOTE–With regard to development, we can argue economic benefits, but any TAX REVENUE from development would NOT go to the city of Boise–it would all go to the CCDC.
Oct 18, 2009, 5:51 pm
“EDITOR NOTE–With regard to development, we can argue economic benefits, but any TAX REVENUE from development would NOT go to the city of Boise–it would all go to the CCDC.”
Please enlighten me as to which type of tax moneys go to the city and which to CCDC? Sorry if everyone else already knows this, but I doubt it. Thanks.
Oct 18, 2009, 9:40 pm
CCDC gets tax increment from improvements of “urban renewal” projects. It also gets revenue from the Ada County Courthouse and 8 parking garages. $20-$15 Million per year. The hypothetical local improvement district created by the City Council to fund the hypothetical streetcar would generate revenue also. It is not clear that those funds would go to CCDC, but it is a possibility. The City doesn’t seem to know which way it is moving most of the time.
@Serendipity: I concur that those quotations are couched in diction of class conflict. I find terms like workforce housing just as demeaning as you do.