I am sure surprised to see how delighted you are that people all over the Treasure Valley are losing their jobs because of the housing market. Our current market is what “no growth” gets you. I think you are definitely in the minority of people that like the way things are going right now.

EDITOR NOTE–No delight, just hate to see an economy built on GROWTH, because it is bound to fail. AVIMOR, TAMARACK, CLIFFS, were all bound to fail because they didn’t have the up front cash to do as they promised. We predict the same for the one in Garden Valley as well. See next comment.

The problem is not that Avimor failed. The problem is that Avimor, and others like it, exist.

The oversupply of real estate by fools like this drive down the price, and therefore the equity, of every other home in the area. Theirs, yours, and mine. Our equity will not return until the market comes back into balance. That will take long enough by itself. The fact that the idiots running the various P&Z office around the area keep approving more and more of these debacles, in a misguided attempt to re-inflate the bubble, just exacerbates the problem and lengthens the recovery time.

My compliments to “economist”. You hit it right on. The problem is that these projects even got approved in the first place.

Another example is the Crescent Rim (massive) Condo project. The developers were so arrogant that they thought they knew more than anyone and built something that NOBODY even wanted to buy. No the project is stopped and mothballed. The neighbor is stuck with a boondoggle.

Not only is the project dead but the developer has refused to pay for the road improvements that are a part of his Conditional Use Permit. He owes $95,000 and had to go to the city and tell them he was broke so they would allow him to get an occupancy permit WITHOUT paying the money.

A friend that works at ACHD tells me that “all the government agencies in the valley have been told to do whatever it takes to help the developers” – like that was not the case before.

The best thing about Avimor is that it is not sitting in the middle of a nice neighborhood like the boondoggle condos do.

Good comments, except for Snoop, who said: “Our current market is what “no growth” gets you.” That is the exact opposite of reality. Growth at any cost got us in this mess. Will anyone be held responsible? Don’t hold your breath.

While in Florida recently I saw a bumper sticker: “Florida is full. Don’t even think of moving here” I thought to myself, yeah, the whole country is full.

Economist, Taxed Out, and of course, Fraz, you’re dead on. The Commissioners and the County P&Z have done us all a grave disservice in approving these doomed projects which only dilute the market and worsen any chance of recovery. The developers, in pushing for approval, do likewise. Talk about biting your own hand! Their shortsightedness is unbelievable. Meanwhile, the taxpayers will continue to subsidize services… so much for self-sustainabilility. I want my money back(!), let alone someone’s resignation. Commissioners?

Economist and Clippityclop, you talk about the idiots at P&Z. I think you are way off base. They are only following the law as are the commissioners. There isn’t anywhere in the law, as far as I know, that says, “if there is any oversupply you cannot approve it.” If they did that they would be sued by the developer and you and I would foot the bill for the legal proceedings. If you want them to stop approving subdivisions because there is an oversupply maybe you should change the law. Now who is the idiot? I also can’t imagine many banks giving money to developments right now, so don’t worry, your precious dirt might not be developing too soon.

Rod in SE, growth didn’t get us in this mess, banks did. They were giving money to anybody with a pulse. Your stupid dog could get a loan if he wanted to. This only intensified growth. If the banks had done their job we wouldn’t be in this mess. Lay off the Jack Daniels.

Everyone’s comments are all based on, hopefully, a once in a lifetime event. It is real easy to say that growth is what got us into this to begin with. You are all usually complaining about growth for all the same reasons i.e. the environment, not paying their way, growth is the devil, but now in the current economy you are all real quick to jump on the bandwagon and say, “I knew this was going to happen.” There is not one person here that could have predicted this to the extent that it is at.

EDITOR NOTE–Snoop, here are some pretty strong indicators from past prognosticators:
–https://boiseguardian.com/2007/07/07/pz-commish-wants-growth-moratorium/
–https://boiseguardian.com/2007/06/18/development-tide-may-be-on-ebb/
–https://boiseguardian.com/2007/06/15/where-has-all-the-money-gone/
–https://boiseguardian.com/2007/06/06/boise-promotes-urban-sprawl-movement/
–https://boiseguardian.com/2007/05/09/looking-down-on-development/
–https://boiseguardian.com/2007/04/26/report-from-sun-valley-growth-meet/
–https://boiseguardian.com/2006/11/18/chamber-creates-growth-problems/
–https://boiseguardian.com/2006/09/06/growth-triumphs-over-good/
–https://boiseguardian.com/2006/10/16/sad-commentary-on-growth/

I think we have lost sight of the origin of our “growth at any cost” history. I wonder why no one has seen the “we finally got Grandpa’s farm”, or “I have worked this land for 40 years, now we are going to sell it to the highest bidder” old time residents of the valley, as the primary cause of all this? I know, and respect, the freedom of choice we all enjoy and our rights to do with as we please with our personal property. However this does not cancel the fact that without some property owner getting rich from selling land purchased many years ago, there would be no “carpetbagger” developers coming to the valley.

Snoop

I think you are correct in that the code does not come right out and specify the presence of demand for the houses. However, the PC ordinance does require fiscal neutrality of the large developments. If the development cannot show the need, cannot show that it will not dump way more infrastructure on the county than the attendant increase in property taxes will cover, such as with Avimor, then the PC code requires it to be denied.

In the case of Avimor, one could possibly make the case that no one could see the end of the Bubble coming. By the time the cliffs rolled around in 2007, the burst bubble was two years old. For the Dry Creek PC, a couple of months ago, to claim a need for the houses, is insulting.

I suggest one solution to offset the property tax impairment created by failed subdivisions/planned communities. Require the Developer to impound (trust account) up to 10 years worth of projected property tax assessments based on their own projected build-out of the proposed community they are building. Every year the Assessor could calculate the actual new property tax payments from new homes/commercial properties within the community against the Develpers projection, and if there is a shorfall take it from the escrowed funds. If no shortfall, then refund that year’s “prepaid” property tax back to the Developer. Repeat process for 9 years. Taxpayers are insulated (at least for a while) and the Developer is forced to put their money where their mouth/forecasts are.

Snoop,

As pointed out by Economist, the issue with the Commissioners and P&Z is that in order for the projects to be approved, they must be fiscally neutral/ self-sustaining, and not be a burden on taxpayers. They screwed the pooch on that one, having every right to tell the developers ‘no’ without fear of suit.