So the City and team Dave promise one thing then do the opposite…or they do not involve the public or users….so what is the surprise? That is the way they have always done busines….always have, always will.

I LOVE it!!! Now he is making enemies with the gliding community!
They are seeing what a loser we have for a mayor! I hope most of this community live in the people’s republic of the north end. It’s high time they recognize this administration for what it is. Elitist, self-agrandizing jerks!!!

Does anyone protest any more?
Protest large groups of people with signs and voice’s. Whats with this young generation? They just lazy?

They sure are Robert. I would wager 80% of the people in this community under 30 couldn’t #1 tell you who the mayor of Boise is, and #2 couldn’t recognize a picture of him. They seem clueless to some of the crap he has pulled. It is the only logical reason why he was elected! Truly a sad situation!!

Cyclops, I think your figures are in the ballpark. For decades politicos have carefully eliminated or divided large sections of the overall demographic in order to concentrate voting power. “Carefully” means having a superficial “get out the vote” message while spreading a more powerful “your vote really doesn’t matter anyway” undertone. This has resulted in low voter turnout and multiple minority groups, totaling a minority of votes having a majority of power. They use emotional distractors like abortion rights and environmental concerns to divide what would be a majority voter block (often husband and wife vote opposite in this group 1-1= 0). The net result is politics overall are pushed to the left. This is why GW looked like Jimmy Carter in policy. He was trying to please the center which has migrated to the left. Our Mayor is a tax and spend, I know what’s good for you lib, with a majority of votes.

Additionally, people have lost sight of the basic purpose of government… use a small amount of tax money to serve the overall good. They have no concept anymore of what is out of bounds. We can thank our liberal teaching agendas for that… something which has been engineered and intentional… And successful.

I don’t think that the nostalgic “back in the days” arguments are relevant here, Boise isn’t what it was even 15 years ago, and can’t be. Change in inevitable, change for either good or ill should be planned, not “just allowed”. I voted for the foothills levy, and happily, in the hope that it would preserve the “natural world” so that change could be either slowed, or that negative impacts could be avoided altogether. The hang gliders haven’t had very much negative impact on the natural world, and, as the Guardian points out, any impact has certainly been a lot less than the bridge and the road(s) construction and the permitted building activities there. This seems like a pretty hollow attack on what may be viewed as a minority recreation activity. One of the great things about Boise has been the inclusive nature of interests and the variety of out-of-doors activities – too bad that Bieter and the boys seem determined to reduce variety and inhibit exploration.

EDITOR NOTE–Kayakers are not only allowed, but the city is diverting the river, building concrete dams and touting it as an economic development project that will mean JOBS. The glider folks just need to hire a better PR firm.

Elaine, why don’t you just come on out. While your at it, are you going to run again?

You suggest Boise City ignore the foothills plan that places a high priority on acquiring eastern foothills land for wildlife habitat, a plan whose funding was approved by Boise voters. In its place you propose, counter to provisions of the plan, after the city bought the land from a developer, gifting it right back to one of the developer’s acknowledged confederates!

Guardian, that runs counter to everything you’ve harped on for the past several years.  I  know you hate Bieter, but try to maintain a some dignity.

EDITOR NOTE– I will post your comment, but it makes no sense. I don’t really have a position… I just find it ironic the city has done all it can to pave and populate Harris Ranch and then strive to “save Hammer Flat.”
 

Grumpy-
Great points about non motorized free flight pilots being a minority group. If there were as many non-motorized free flight pilots in this valley as there are paddlers or rafters or mtn. bikers or hunters I somehow doubt that our group would have been brushed aside and ignored from day one.

One irony is that in the long run all this noise that we’ve been forced to make (we would rather go quietly fly than be compelled to read policy plans and write letters) might actually bring our sport to the attention of other valley residents and over time our community might actually grow as a result – had the city worked with us from the beginning we probably would have continued to be a very very very very small group – essentially under the radar of all valley residents.

David, I learned how to paddle with the Long family (Cascade Raft Company) when they first moved to the valley about 20 years ago at the age of 12. Whitewater parks are interesting beasts and my feelings and views about them are conflicted- it will be interesting to see how the Ray Neef WW park shapes the minds and understandings of new Boise boaters. My boating history is rooted in Secesh and S. Fork Salmon, MF Salmon, Camas Creek, Bear Cr., Clark’s Fork Yellowstone and other wilderness/roadless area overnight self support trips – those are the experiences that shaped my understanding of the natural world and wild places. I wonder about how artificial and “man enhanced” white water parks will shape the mind’s and attitudes of future paddlers and influence their relationships with wild places and desire to protect and look out for both the health and well being of those wild places as well as ensuring that they can someday visit and have access to those areas as well.
14 years guiding on the Middle Fork of the Salmon in the Frank Church has also shaped my understanding of wild places and how powerful, life altering and perspective shifting they can be for so many visitors.

64.01% –
You are correct – hang gliding and parasailing are prohibited in wilderness areas. This is largely a matter of interpretation as the wilderness bill does not specifically prohibit those activities, but the way the bill is interpreted and applied by land managers does preclude those uses. Hang gliding is allowed in Yosemite Ntl. Park on a permit basis in an analogous manner to how permits are issued to non motorized boaters on the MF/Main salmon rivers, Hells Canyon, and Selway rivers in Idaho.
The main idea is probably less about what specific activities are allowed or prohibited in wilderness than that zero public access of any kind at all – as in the case of the Hammer Flats which is situated beyond and out of view behind the adjacent Crow Gliding Area – is certainly a different approach to land management and drastically more restrictive than how even our wilderness areas are currently managed.
As a side note while pilots such as the famous Dorris brothers out of McCall have described conditions that would allow a non-motorized pilot to attempt a trans Frank Church flight the practicality of committing to such a wild place and a potential 4 day hike out with gear pretty much precludes hang gliding in the Frank from a practical standpoint. I know that just like many other private aircraft enthusiasts Kangas and his wife have enjoyed many flights into the Frank Church with their little 4 seater – even flying to Bernard airstrip on the MF for an elk hunt. We are lucky to live in such a wild state, aren’t we?

David-
Modern Hang gliding had only been around for about 3 or 4 years when the wilderness bill passed – and mostly just in Europe. It is worth pondering how the wilderness bill may have been interpreted with regards to non motorized flying craft had they been been around for as long as jet boats, lodges, private property, horse packers, airplanes and skiers when the bill was written then interpreted. Perhaps our activities would have been grand fathered in as well.

Then again our silent, unobtrusive, off-the-public-conscious-radar activity probably would have slipped under the radar just as it has in the Boise Valley for the last 35 years. Sometimes it takes the whine of a Cessna 185 or the gas guzzling rumbled of 3 350 chevies blasting up salmon falls to garner public awareness. Wild.

Exciting times.

Aaron,
I have no envy of your delight in gliding, as I find it similar to jumping out of a perfectly good airplane. However, your pedigree in wilderness exposure and enjoyment seems above reproach. Your position is logical and reflects a good command of wilderness “history” here in Idaho.
This exclusion is nothing short of criminal, and I would believe completely illegal as no exchange of “value for value” has occured. It appears that the city is, once again, hoping no one calls them on this issue. I can only hope that all of these questionable “policies” are remembered come November.

Aaron’s observation about the ridge road, fire fighting, and safety are correct. Many of the ridge lines in our foothills have roads which serve as fire breaks and  provide fire fighting access. If the city ever decides to exercise due diligence and formulate a comprehensive management plan for the Crow Gliding Hill and the Flats where Tony Jones now lives, they would look at fire breaks and access for emergency vehicles. Given their desire to increase fuel loading by planting habitat brush, they could be negligent to not approach the issue with due care. Years ago we flew a TV news camera over a fire on the west flank of Squaw Butte and unlike a grass fire the flames from high concentrations of brush were reaching hundreds of feet into the air.

We estimate there are 65 homes surrounding the Crow Gliding Hill with another handful including Tony’s on the far East Side of the flats. When we google earth Tony’s address at 9884 E Highway 21 Boise, Idaho we find that his scar on the land is in a dangerous location. His road will form a fire break, but if his good friends at Fish and Game cover the flats with brush, and a comprehensive plan for the area is not implemented, his “Private Idaho” on the east side of Hammer Flat will be at serious risk.

For the 65 homes and families on the west side of the property, some of which are visible in the picture of the Crow Gliding Hill, the ridge road could save their lives and help protect their property from the dangers the City and F&G would create…with the rush to plant the brush.

John K.