Dave, no doubt you encountered some individuals participating in local protests who may have expressed their suspicion of efforts to fix downtown Boise’s “hole” (public urban renewal efforts), that particular issue does not appear to be the focus of their protest nor does it appear to represent the specific opinions of the group as a whole.

If it did, they would spell that out on their Web site:

http://occupyboise.org/

Wealth inequality, student loan debts, unregulated Wall Street banks (as opposed to relatively small, regional, regulated banks) and corporate control of institutions that are supposed to be democratic: These are their main issues.

Jerry, I’m not sure how many of the occupyboise meetings you’ve been to, but I have to wonder the basis for your assessment. Is it based on actual experience at Occupy Boise assemblies, or is it based on mainstream/corporate media coverage of Occupy Boise events specifically, or is it based on mainstream/corporate coverage of Occupy Wall Street generally?

I think MANY (most?) people in Occupy Boise are quite concerned about the collusion between public (and psuedo-public) entities that spend tax monies (and narrow the property tax base) to subsidize private profits, especially of a freaking bank.

At the 6PM Occupy Boise general assembly in Capitol Park last night when this 7PM march was proposed, discussed, consented on and planned, it was made clear that the hole-deal is a grievance many of us share about business as usual around here and that we wanted to specifically pass it (and some of the big banks) on our march route to raise some awareness.

Over the last week or two especially, this concern seems to be being raised more frequently among folks I talk with there.

At least one occupier took this concern straight at Councilman Eberle (who has some role at CCDC) at the Boise Votes event at Boise State the other night, and the Councilman seemed to move straight into defensive obfuscation (mixed with a faux indignation). It suggested to me that the Councilman did NOT want an honest conversation about the costs of this project.

Anyone interested in hearing more directly from occupiers (rather than getting info filtered through mass media) should definitely come to our general assmebly meetings. Tonight (Th, 10/27) and tomorrow (Fr, 10/28) our General Assemblies will be meeting in Room E403 (the House Majority Caucus Chambers) at the People’s House at 700 W. Jefferson.

Kudos to the Guardian for getting the scoop on this, they were not the only media contacted, but I think they were the only ones who showed up.

Too funny. We won’t cover news unless we have 2 days notice.

As a protester with Occupy Boise, we have discussed the “hole” at our GA’s . Dave is right.

Alex wrote:

“At least one occupier took this concern straight at Councilman Eberle (who has some role at CCDC) at the Boise Votes event at Boise State the other night…”

Yes. I’m sure that’s probably true.

But the documents explaining the public portion of the “fix-Boise’s-hole” project are on the Web — in public view — here:

http://ccdcboise.com/AboutCCDC/documents/BoardpacketSeptember262011.pdf

(Page 231 of the 345-page PDF document.)

Also, the public board of the city’s agency advertises its meetings — which are public meetings — on the Web site.

It seems to me that we’re talking about “apples” and “oranges.”

When it comes to big, international Wall Street investment banks such as Goldman Sachs…

http://www2.goldmansachs.com/

…yes… the OCCUPY protests appear to be directed toward that type of bank.

When it comes to a relatively small, regional, regulated bank then… ? I’m STILL not sure there’s a logical connection.

The housing bubble and the subsequent collapse of the national economy have already been studied by the official Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission (FCIC). You can read the conclusion of that panel on the Stanford University Web site here:

http://fcic.law.stanford.edu/

The conclusions of that report did *not* appear to place blame for the housing bubble collapse on small, regional banks such as Zions!

Are you suggesting that a regional depositor bank such as Zions was responsible for a national housing bubble collapse???

I’m not sure I follow you.

Other examples of Wall Street investment banks were Lehman Brothers (went bankrupt in 2008), Bear Stearns (sold to JP Morgan Chase in 2008) and Merrill Lynch (now a division of Bank of America).

So it seems we’re talking about two entirely different types of banks.

In addition, the collapse of the housing bubble and the subsequent unemployment in the construction industry is something that an urban renewal project in downtown Boise might help, right?

Alex asked:

“I have to wonder the basis for your assessment. Is it based on actual experience at Occupy Boise assemblies, or is it based on mainstream/corporate media coverage of Occupy Boise events specifically, or is it based on mainstream/corporate coverage of Occupy Wall Street generally?”

Alex,

The OCCUPY movement, it appears, was initiated by an online magazine, Adbusters: a not-for-profit entity based in Vancouver, British Columbia:

http://www.adbusters.org/blogs/adbusters-blog/occupywallstreet.html

They appear to advocate…

FOR:

Democracy

AGAINST:

Corporatism and what they describe as “Wall Street, the financial Gomorrah of America.”

Wikipedia’s entry reads as follows:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street

“Occupy Wall Street (OWS) is an ongoing series of demonstrations in New York City based in Zuccotti Park in the Wall Street financial district. The protests were initiated by the Canadian activist group Adbusters.[5] They are mainly protesting social and economic inequality, corporate greed, corporate power and influence over government (particularly from the financial services sector), and of lobbyists.”

They appear to be in favor of nonviolent protest.

If the democratic process leads to a community consensus that Boise’s “hole” should remain a permanent fixture in the downtown, fine, I have no problem with that.

On the other hand, I would point out that there are probably many local advocates of democracy who hold a different opinion: that fixing the “hole” might yield significant public benefits such as employment and eventually more revenue for public services. I think those people should also be heard.

Then, hopefully, the two sides might work together to achieve a reasonable compromise.

But it seems too early to tell if the OCCUPY movement in Boise is 100% against/for fixing the downtown “hole.”

It appears to me the truth might actually be that members of the group might hold a variety of different opinions on that particular subject.

EDITOR NOTE–Thanks for the shorter comment! You are right, it is only 99% against spending public money for a bank that already has TARP funds.

Dave, ZIONS will have to repay the TARP funds. In fact, the government might actually force ZIONS to sell shares to pay off that TARP debt. Let’s keep an eye on it.

Nevertheless, democracy is great! I applaud the robust public debate about these issues! However, why not focus more attention on the organizational structure of the Federal Reserve System?

http://www.federalreserve.gov/

More democracy may actually be a potential cure for the our system’s problems. Economist Dean Baker explains how citizens can and should demand more representation on the boards of the various regional Federal Reserve bank units in his FREE book:

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/publications/books/the-end-of-loser-liberalism

In Chapter 6 (page 65), “Full Employment Without The Fed,” Baker expresses the opinion that the main problem with the Federal Reserve System is that its current organizational structure gives private sector banks too much representation on the various Federal Reserve boards!

Mr. Baker argues that it is happening at OUR expense!

If average citizens would simply demand more representation on the boards of the Federal Reserve System, they might be able to implement new policy that would place emphasis on full employment, for example, rather than policies that primarily safeguard the interests of deep-pocketed investors. Take a look at the individuals who are on the board of the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco Salt Lake City Branch:

http://www.frbsf.org/publications/federalreserve/annual/2010/salt-lake-city-board-of-directors.html

Let’s start with Mr. Scott Hymas who is the CEO of RC Willey, which is just one of many Berkshire Hathaway companies:

http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/subs/sublinks.html

I’ve never met the man. But I ask the question: Is he an individual who would fairly represent the interests of average working citizens in this region? Or is it more likely that He might represent the interests of, say, Mr. Warren Buffett? What about his colleagues on that same board?

Democracy is the cure, but will Idahoans rise up and demand representation? There’s always hope. But when I look at how many people in Idaho fail to make it to the polls… well…

Dog asked:

“Why can’t CCDC just tell them to make it one story shorter?”

Dog, better yet: Why don’t you — yes you — go to one board meeting and ask them? Also ask them to explain why they don’t believe it is corporate welfare. And ask them if the bank will be the only tenant in this building. And ask them how much tax revenue will be lost if this “hole” sits idle for another 24 years. Then report back to us.

The thing that concerns me most about the downtown urban renewal district, is that it narrows the base on the county property tax, if I’m not mistaken. That shifts the rightful burden of that district’s property owners onto property tax payers who pay tax on property outside that district. We could have made a heckuva park for $4 million, made downtown more livable, generated more foot traffic, and wound up with something primarily intended for the benefit of all rather than the profit of a few. But keep moving people, there’s nothing to see here.

or why not swing by our FREE! Bazaar in Capitol Park on Saturday. Here’s a copy press release the Occupy Boise Public Ed and Outreach Working Group banged out the other day:

For Immediate Release

Occupy Boise Offers FREE! Community Bazaar on Saturday, Oct. 29.

Occupy Boise invites the public to a “FREE! Bazaar” on Saturday, October 29 from 10:00 AM to 6:30 PM in Capitol Park.

Occupy Boise’s mission is to build community among the 99% to address the problems caused by the greed and corruption of the 1%. The “FREE! Bazaar” will be an exhibition of some small-scale, practical ways to serve human needs right now while preparing to address the bigger problems down the road. Don’t miss this chance to spend time with friends and neighbors in a completely noncommercial (FREE!) setting.

The “FREE! Bazaar” will feature games, music, zombie face painting, a really free market (where all goods are FREE!), a free-speech soap box, a mass meeting, arts activities, food to share with Food Not Bombs, and educational workshops such as “Know Your Rights,” “Herbalism,” and “Consent”.

To experience what it might look like to focus on human needs instead of corporate greed, come to the “FREE! Bazaar” in Capitol Park this Saturday, between 10:00 AM and 6:30 PM. The park is located at 601 W. Jefferson Street (across from the People’s House) in Downtown Boise.

The event is absolutely free of charge and open to folks of all ages and backgrounds.

The public is also invited to attend all Occupy Boise meetings to discuss and plan next steps. On Thursday and Friday, Occupy Boise will hold General Assembly meetings from 5:00 PM to 6:00 PM in the House Majority Caucus Room on the 4th floor of the People’s House, at 700 W. Jefferson St. On Saturday, our mass meeting will assemble at 2:00 PM at the “FREE! Bazaar” in Capitol Park. Other assembly times can be found on the calendar tab at occupyboise.org.
 

I love the Occupy movement and appreciate what the movement stands for, but I think we are missing the mark on this one. It appears that the right is manipulating our message. I am a Occupier and my message is “Fairness, Justice, and Democracy in government and the workplace” lets focus our efforts on redistribution of wealth, Corporate Campaign contribution reform, and bringing job back to the United States.

Globalization has lifted up third world countries at the expense of good paying jobs in this country. CEO’s got paid big money to move jobs offshore. It didn’t take a genius to figure out cheap labor would impact the bottom line. Americans bought into this with every purchase of cheap foreign made goodies.

Banks are getting to use our money for nearly zero interest and loaning it to other countries via bond debt to Brazil, Argentina and other countries and the CEO’s are paid millions for taking on high risk debt underwritten by US taxpayers.

Colleges and Universities keep selling the scam that any college degree will lead to a good job. Add to that the myth that the school you attend along with a worthless degree actually matters to any employer. Parents and students buy into this myth and at the end of 4-5 years the kid comes out of college with a worthless degree eligible to man a hotel reservation line, flip burgers, park cars etc. If you attend college make sure there is a job with a demand for your course of study otherwise you have wasted your time along with your parents money. Math,Science and Engineering are still in demand… Anthropology, Ethnic Studies and Basket Weaving are not going to lead to a good job.

We now have a situation where we have too many people chasing too few jobs worldwide. Monday the world will hit 7 Billion people and counting.

Paul, I agree with you. The use of force was too much. It is the kind of thuggery which is becoming all too common with our militarized police forces.

On the other hand, I do not think the protesters are peaceful when it is their intent to cause disruption.

Anyone fool enough to openly carry an AK in a confrontational situation with police, legal as it may be, is just being stupid.

So, is anyone up for supporting Oakland’s citywide strike on November 2nd? No work, no school. It was voted on after the US vet suffered a skull fracture at the hands of the police of Oakland.

What is going on rather reminds me of an old tune from 1967 “for what it’s worth” by Buffalo Springfield.

One Who Knows–Maybe some of us would prefer direct democracy to representational democracy. For those of us, such an act might violate our values.

Others might view it as a tactical error, like that Leonard Cohen line “they sentenced me to 30 years of boredom for trying to change the system from within.” Maybe you should run.

Personally speaking, I have lost faith in the corporate-owned election system entirely.

In case you missed it, the system is broken. Maybe the politicians should come sit in on some of our meetings and learn how to listen to each other and work together to find common ground and help solve community problems. Their way sure doesn’t work.

Paul, all the issues you raise are concerns I share. The fact that the initiative process in CA is so tainted by big money may explain CA problems as well as problems with initiatives themselves. The money drowns out an honest discussion of costs vs. benefits, and I think that’s part of the CA problem with initiatives there. When I speak of direct democracy, it is not necessarily limited to majority-rules direct democracy, but would include the consensus-based decision making that Occupy Boise uses. Our current republican form seems to me to have been wholly bought and sold by the 1%, and I personally tend to believe we the people’s voice should never be ignored when decisions are made that will impact our lives. Currently our voices seem relevant only insofar as we can donate money to campaigns or vote in November, and then we no longer count.