Jim, you own a bunch of rental properties. Admit that you will never support a school levy, regardless of the need based merits. You are simply protecting your bottom line, which is smart business but short sighted for the future of our community. Spending only $6500 per student is beyond pathetic, so don’t act like spending a token amount more per student than in 2001 is something to cherish.

Kudos for assuming the levy would be used primarily on salary increases so that you can use your anti-union rhetoric to rally the right. That type of trolling will certainly catch some fish.

Neither the “for” or “against” arguments explained the meaning of the term “levy”, so I’ll assume it is a property tax levy (probably to pay back bonds the district would sell), and since I live in the BSD, it would cover my home.

It is disturbing that the state legislature has cut funding for schools so much that the local school districts have to hold elections to replace that money. I would much prefer to fund schools from statewide income taxes than by property taxes, sales taxes, or anyother kind of tax.

EDITOR NOTE–Rod, correct it is a property tax increase to make up for lost state funding, but it is just a “supplemental” levy to pay expenses, not for bonds which are for buildings.

My problem with Idaho schools is the crazy number of districts…are there really 105 school districts in Idaho? There are 8 school districts I can name off the top of my head in Canyon County. This creates an administrative burden that is fiscally irresponsible.

Yes, I have heard all the arguments about local control. It is a euphemism for costing a lot more money and the loss of economies of scale for buying everything from toilet paper to the most expensive thing you can think of.

We have superintendents, asst. superintendents, curriculum specialists, information officers and the list goes on and on. Time for some serious actions about consolidation.

Also irksome are all the kids I see on school buses. More money needs to be spent on sidewalks and safe ways for kids to walk to school. A half mile or so to walk to school is not unreasonable.

If St. Lukes and St. Als were paying their fair share of property taxes instead of putting their profits in bricks and mortar and competing for business through television, print media and billboard budgets we would all pay a lot less.

The exemption on St. Lukes downtown campus alone is costing the Boise School District nearly $1/2 million per year.

This should be the age of government and taxing districts learning to work with less – as all citizens have been learning to do over the past several years. More responsibility for education needs to be passed on to the parent such as home school, volunteering in the classroom, paying for art/general classroom/ sports supplies, etc. According to my tax statement, the school districts are receiving a disproportionate amount of money as compared to all other taxing districts. I vote NO.

I forgot to add.. the Idaho Legislature created this monster and it is time for the Idaho Legislature to put it back in the box. They create the laws and they can change the laws. URA’s have been granted “wide powers” and in a lot of instances this power translates to taxpayer waste, fraud and abuse.

I couldn’t agree more with No Vote. For Clancy who says “The opponents of the levy have not even come up with solutions.” It’s not our job to come up with “solutions”; that’s what we hire over-paid school administrators to do. We the public set the budget, they the school management are charged with making the most effective use of that budget. Sadly, the schools-industrial complex seeks only more and more money; efficiency, they are incapable of doing a better job within a fixed budget.

Hopefully by denying the school bureaucrat’s greedy demands for more money, we taxpayers will eventually force them either: (a) to find another career or (b) to utilize technological and business management advances to educate our children more efficiently.

We will vote no on this one! Five years?? $70 million ?? There are already five Boise school items on our latest tax bill ! Once they are there they never seem to go away!

Wasn’t it just a couple of years back they were consolidating schools because of declining enrollment?? Why more money for less kids??

It is interesting all the data being quoted is from other districts who are also holding Levy Elections. Caldwell, Vallivue, Nampa, Meridian and Boise are all holding levy elections March 13.

Either there is gross mismanagement in Treasure Valley schools, funding shortfalls or a combination of both. I think a few major items could be fixed at the state level,so districts don’t come looking to the taxpayers.

Areas to fix at the state level.
-Consolidation of districts and administrative positions.
-Urban Renewal reform
-Boise’s charter should be changed so they operate like other districts (much like the change to UofI).
-Standard salary schedules for adminstrators.

One question for all, “What is a teacher worth salary wise?”

As a native Idahoan, I am saddened by many of these posts.

There seem to be two vantage points:

No, because of bottom line and or hate toward public education: administrators and teachers alike.

Yes, to support the quality education the BSD is producing.

For the people on the No side willing to listen, it seems there is a business numbers approach to this. Most often, simple math numbers and business application cannot be made to education. It is simply not apples to apples. The total number of students and total number of teachers do not make for realistic ratios.

First example: special education (federally funded around 20% and requiring the district to fund the other 80%) have low class sizes (3-15) and Federal Law mandates classified assistants too. Specialized courses including advanced placement, often have fewer students (at one time were capped to provide more specialized attention). In order to offer these types of classes, compensation is made by having other classes be much larger. The number of Full Time Employees is business-mathematics. The FTE is calculated by the number of enrolled students. Fact is the BSD runs under the allotted amount of administrators the state suggests for a district their size in order to attempt maintaining smaller class sizes.

Second example: the business world is way more administrator heavy. Education is no where near as top heavy. The average business manager oversees 12 people while the average public school administrator oversees 38 (not counting classified employees, students, or parents).

Third, what type of a business do people want to work for? –The one which will pay better and provide a better atmosphere. I am a Meridian School District Alum. I loved my time in school and received a quality education. I have completed my MA and I am working toward a PHD. However, my wife and I made the choice to move to Boise this past summer from Meridian to ensure our children will attend BSD schools.

Meridian is no longer what it once was. Rocky Mountain is large and new (noisy too, again lack of funding, so they had to cut corners and polished the cement in hallways instead of laying real flooring), but as all Meridian high schools, classes are too large, there are too many students for teachers to be able to give and require adequate work expectations, and the BSD snipes many of the best teachers away for higher pay and better working conditions.

boisetaxpayer sets an example teaching salary which starts thousands higher than the state pay scale for starting teachers places them last in the country for pay on the high end. Take a look at how other countries (those fairing better in education: Finland, Japan, etc.) pay their teachers and their comparative buying power.

P.S. I coached high school for a few years for $1000 a year. Coaches do not do it for the money. This is how Meridian can still offer extra-curricular events after their failure last year (even more cuts to coaching salaries and athletes pay to play: significantly lowering numbers of participants.) I also do not my kids’ teachers working additional jobs causing them to divert attention away from the classroom.

I take the time to write this because I hope the failings of Meridian do not follow suite in Boise.

The current levy is only to maintain what is currently happening in the Boise School District today. It is not and cannot be used to raise salaries: only to maintain. Mr. Jim Auld, please place your political agenda aside. You do your share of slander in your piece. First, Idaho is a Right to Work State. There is not a teachers’ union. There is an association. (For a quick follow-up, it is easier for a school to fire a bad teacher than for most businesses (prominent places with adequate salaries) to get approval from HR to fire someone: i.e. Wells Fargo.) Looking at numbers spanning a decade leaves out a crucial piece of financial evidence. While the private sector was booming, education never saw radical increases in pay or budgeted monies. People are so quick to judge when times are hard, yet forgetful when they are good. Ultimately, the suggestions you make about raising salaries and union cash flow are inaccurate and fraudulent. This is an operational levy to maintain current expenditures. This is why due to state law, it will only take a majority to pass instead of needing a 2/3 majority to pass. Idaho is 1 of only 2 states requiring a 2/3 majority on bonds and levies (levies looking to add additional support-not the case for this scenario).

To address another response, I have been doing my homework on BSD bonds and levies. The dollar amount is the maximum they will take, and the BSD historically has taken less than the total amount when they can do with less. Second, there does not seem to be a habitual need to return or rerun bonds. This may not be true in the future though due to continued decreases in funding.

Without a quality public education, the doors for opportunity will be closed for many.

I will vote “Yes.”

meridianalumnboiseparentvoteyes – your reply is as long as your username, but again – long on emotion and short on facts. Hopefully the facts will prevail over emotion on Tuesday.

Meridianalum

A couple comments on your dissertation.

You say the BEA is not a Union but an Association. OK, it may not be technically a Union. It may not be affiliated with the AFL-CIO. Maybe we could call it a Guild. In any case, the Boise District negotiates with the BEA on wages and benefits and those wages and benefits form the basis for wages and benefits paid to other District employees.

If the BEA is only an Association, as you maintain, why did it threaten to strike Boise District in the mid 90s and why did the District, in response to that strike threat, implement strike management procedures? Unions strike. If an Association strikes what is the difference between an Association striking and a Union striking? A Union (or union if you prefer) is nothing more than an association of people with common interests pursuing a common goal. In this case, I’d suggest an Association by any other name is a Union no matter what sheep’s clothing it is dressed in and regardless of whether or not it has AFL-CIO affiliation.

I agree teachers should be paid a living wage and be compensated for their educational background. I also support non – certified staff being paid less, in most cases, than certified staff – something that doesn’t happen in the Boise District. But as part of the whole wage discussion shouldn’t we talk about summer school principal jobs, summer driver ed instructors, or summer school teachers? All that is extra income by choice. And then there are those who chose to fight wildland fires (or any other job) during the summer months. Again, extra income by choice.

And please don’t try and compare Idaho starting teacher salaries to the national average. That’s an apples and oranges comparison. A better comparison might be to rural states or Intermountain states or States that have demographics similar to that of Idaho. The “problems” that teachers have to deal with in Idaho schools pale in comparison to those in urbanized districts in larger states.

It’s my observation that Meridian District underpays, and overworks, its employees. On the other hand, Boise District overpays its management. I’d suggest Boise District try a Zero Based Budget approach at least one time just to see how things fall out.

And speaking of management, I assume you’re talking about school principals when you say the average public school administrator oversees 38 people. Let’s take that a step or two up the ladder, like to the Area Director level, and the number becomes more like 16 – pretty close to that “average business manager.”

Lastly, you say “… there does not seem to be a habitual need to return or rerun bonds.” The reason there was no increase in taxes for the last construction bond was because the new bond merely replaced an old bond that was about to expire. Had there not been a new bond we all would have gotten a tax decrease when the old bond expired.

I attended a meeting with my legislators and fellow citizens some time back. One gentleman took the floor and almost shouted that he wanted teachers to to their fair share and work 8 hour days. I stood up and laughed. I’m married to a teacher who puts in roughly 60 hours a week, and has two Master’s Degrees that we paid for ourselves. Nobody is giving us anything. Summers off have never afforded us a vacation. Instead, my husband has taken classes and worked, since I have 3 auto immune disorders and cannot add to the household income. It really gripes me when people spew out venom that teachers don’t put enough time in. Come over to my house some time. And deal with all the behavioral problems many of you people send our way as well. 13, one year.

Voting No! uses the cliche of apples to oranges and then builds a logical fallacy within his own argument using logos (appealing to logic) as he attempts fake his affirmation of confidence.

Voting No! writes,”The ‘problems’ that teachers have to deal with in Idaho schools pale in comparison to those in urbanized districts in larger states.” Following this same logic, Boise is not the same as surrounding districts. It faces different issues as Boise continues to shift, change, and “urbanize.” Boise High School, as defined by the Great State of Idaho, is the only urban school in the state.

Furthermore, continuing the “apple-cart” analogy, costs of living in Boise are much higher than Meridian, Kuna, Nampa, Caldwell, etc.

Last, if paying people better generates better quality, as Boise versus the other districts, why not support it?

P.S. Voted yes, and things are looking good. It seems Boise is still an area supporting education unlike many on this message board.

In a capitalistic society, those private school supporters should be happy. The better public education is, the harder the private sector must work to create a desirable product.

Overtaxed,

Good point. Couldn’t agree with you more. I’ve said basically the same thing in other posts concerning this election. More than 4% of Boise District enrollment is from outside the Boise District.

Good points on salaries and the audit also!

Too bad more folks weren’t as enlightened and aware as you.