Valleyride, our bus system, is almost completely worthless. It stops running at 6pm. It doesn’t run on Sundays. Most routes only run once per hour. No wonder nobody uses it. Plus, Boise is so sprawled out that even if we funded it absurdly, it still wouldn’t be convenient.

“I believe that the cheapest public transportation is actually the Private Cab.”

That would be much more convenient than the bus system, but how would it work without being abused?

It is misleading to state, Commuterride “is cost efficient with fares equaling the cost”

Albeit, the misinformation starts with ACHD since they represent it that way in their budget.

Fact- the riders (about 1,000 users) pay only about 40-50% of the cost to operate Commuterride.

The rest is taken from federal TAXES, Ada County TAXES, and ACHD taxes to support the money losing Commuterride.

ACHD has in the past, said it would transfer Commuterride to VRT, where is should be managed as a part of public transit.
But, not soo fast- ACHD must like the federal money too much.

Mr. Harriman’s comparative analysis is about transit systems that actually TRANSPORT people… you know, like from Point A to Point B.

Mayor Bieter’s Trolley Pipe Dream is about going in circles around the core downtown… NOT bringing in commuters from distant locations, as an alternative to driving. (Please correct me if I’ve got it all wrong.) It might be useful for downtown upscale condo-dwellers; everybody else would still be driving to “almost downtown” to use it.

It would probably be well-used on “First Thursday.” If it doesn’t shut down at 6:30pm like the buses, it might be a “designated driver” for people who like to bar-hop downtown on Friday and Saturday night. And if it’s cute, you might bring (drive) your out-of-town guests downtown, for a ride to the Farmer’s Market on Saturday morning.

How much can Boise’s taxpayers afford, for a novelty carnival ride? (And PLEASE don’t insult us by telling us the Feds will pay for 95% of it! We ARE “the Feds,” and last I heard we were $18 trillion in debt!)

Full Disclosure: I’m generally supportive of mass transit. And that’s with the full understanding that it will always need taxpayer subsidy. I’d support a .5% local sales tax, if they could convince me how much better they could make our BUS system with that revenue. I’m TOTALLY skeptical about the cost/benefit of an in-ground trolley.

EDITOR NOTE–Harriman was writing in response to the first of five parts of an IDAHO PRESS TRIBUNE series. http://www.idahopress.com/members/funding-failure-valley-transit-funding-meager-unpredictable-compared-to-peer/article_95618248-73ad-11e4-8057-07b8c4d2245c.html

Rather than resorting to Google / Bing searches number crunchers might want to check out http://www.ntdprogram.gov/ntdprogram .

These are numbers reported by transit agencies to the Feds under a standardized reporting system. 2012 is the latest year currently available.

In 2012 Boise regular route bus riders paid roughly 12% of the cost of their ride which was about $ 4.60 if you rode a single bus without transferring. If you transferred to another bus to complete the trip add in another $ 4.60. Sorry that’s the way the numbers get counted. Each time you got on a bus in 2012 it cost $ 4.60. You can do the math on the tax subsidy per ride.

The more taxpayer goodies that are provided, the more they want!!

There is no end to the gravy train, and the blue votes and voters.

Steve Crea – this doesn’t really have anything to do with Bieter. Though your shallow jabs at him and the democrats are noted.

Public transportation is important. Do you want a 2 hour commute from Nampa to downtown Boise?

BTW: We have a 5 lane freeway which gets crowded sometimes because Ideeehoo drivers won’t venture out beyond the 3rd lane. 4 and 5 are actually dusty from lack of use.

Zippo, just because we have a huge highway doesn’t mean that everyone can drive, or that public transportation is useless. Or that west Treasure Valley is going to get much more populated in the next 10 years.

Zippo… that 5 lane highway get crowded because there are too many Cali’s here

Boise’s crappy bus system makes it really difficult for criminals to move freely throughout the valley. Legal representatives from the ACLU and National Criminal Gang Rights Network will be meeting with TeamDave next week to shake him down for a immediate change to this crippling and discriminating policy.

TeamDave indicates they have done their best to foster growth opportunities for gangs, but without free transportation like Seattle and Portland there remains physical barriers to establishing an effective underworld in Boise. TeamDave goes on to lament, that they do not yet have total control of the local police, specifically highlighting the BPD and ACS aggressively solving even minor crimes.

There remains hope at City Hall that the Obama administration will somehow force to police to allow gangs to become established in Boise.

Dale Gribble:

Are not all of these initiatives being flogged by Bieter and his minions?

And, is this not a thinly disguised income redistribution ploy? It does not come close to paying for itself.

Do Idahoans (vs. transplants) really want a mini NYC, or a mini Oakland, with all of the resultant city pollution that goes with it, and the resultant crime, and so forth?

EDITOR NOTE–It is no doubt a ploy to get a “local option sales tax” as well.

Craig–A lot of us could break even (or make a profit)if we could get someone else to front our capital costs and administration. Sign me up. Are you serious?

I’ve pointed out in the past a very affordable mass transit system called Skytran. It was developed by NASA and roughly averages the same cost of installation as an average sidewalk. Skytran is highly efficient as well as highspeed. It is also redundant so that adding and maintaining the infrastructure is simple and cost affordable.

I would also point out the factor that “rail” is an antiquated notion, though the city does have in its possession not only the right of way but what could be sold off as scrap iron from the existing rails. This would not only expedite the implementation but also offset the initial development costs.

Skytran can also be found on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/Sky.Tran

http://www.skytran.us/

While I don’t support the trolley, a commuter train for the Treasure Valley is badly needed.
I don’t understand why a mass transit system needs to be profitable. How profitable are our highways? How profitable is it to commuters to be stuck in traffic(time), not to mention the expense of gas and autos. The Treasure valley has a very unique opportunity in that it already has a rail line in place from Caldwell to Micron and beyond.
For some reason, people think that we aren’t going to grow, traffic is not going to increase and somehow roads and highways just pay for themselves.

Previous leader failed to plan for a belt loop to access the far corners of the valley. Now we have Eagle Rd, State St, increasing traffic on I-84. It is time to look ahead, to new ideas.

Buses do not promote development along a specific corridor creating walkable neighborhoods, light rail does.
Look at Salt Lake and the reinvigorated metropolitan areas of Denver and Phoenix.

There is a place for light rail, it is not cheap, nor are 8-10 lane freeway systems. We can’t ever build enough freeways, just look at other cities that try. We need to promote a different way of looking at transporting ourselves.

EDITOR NOTE–You are correct about transit not being profitable. Everyone understands that and few argue that it should be profitable. The problem with light rail from Caldwell to Micron is that it depends upon RAILS. It also depends on frequent schedules to work. Caldwell to Micron with stops probably takes close to an hour. The rails are a mile from Micron at present. It would take at dozens of trains to make an efficient system. Rolling stock alone would be VERY expensive. That figure of capturing 3-5% of commuters is pretty accurate. Which means of the 35,000 who commute daily, a transit system would serve about 10,000 riders. That would mean 200 packed cars with 50 passengers each! Once they get to Boise they need a bus system to get from the tracks to the office…billions of dollars will solve the problem, but the money simply is not there.

Time for some Rail Education 101. Just because a rail line exists doesn’t mean it should or could be used for commuter rail service. Preserving the rail corridor, however, is important for the many uses it could be put to such as a Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) busway.

First, Treasure Valley is not Salt Lake City, Denver, Albuquerque, Phoenix, or Seattle.

Second, the Valley does not have, and will not have according to COMPASS planners, the population density to support a rail operation. COMPASS’ own maps indicate as much. Rail requires a density of about 15 dwelling units per acre within a 1/4 mile of the rail line. That’s about double the current density. What’s that about being the most livable city in America?

Third, is cost. A 2003 VRT Rail Corridor Evaluation Study indicated the Capital costs of getting a rail system up and running was about $ 128 million. That cost did not include the cost of acquiring the right-of-way nor an estimated (in 2003 dollars) annual operating cost of $ 5 million. It also did not include the cost of extending a line to Micron proper nor a new alignment between Nampa and Caldwell.

Fourth, Federal regulations do not permit mixing light rail with heavy rail at the same time on the same line. So much for the Nampa – Caldwell connection using UP tracks. Commuter Rail is another story – and cost.

Fifth, the Guardian is correct (as usual) about travel times. By the time you drive to one of the 7 stations (which are about 4 miles apart), wait for the train, then wait to transfer at the Depot for the vehicle to take you to your destination it will be about hour.

And time also for some Highway Education 101. With the rebuild of the Interstate came High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) (think car pool) lanes. They’re there, they just haven’t been designated as such yet. First choice for a BRT system. BRT can foster development along its line. Think Euclid Ave in Cleveland.

And there was a bypass loop in the plans until the last few years when it was dropped by COMPASS.