City Government

Anti F-35 Post In Interest Of Fair Play

We are providing space to those opposed to the F-35 being based at Gowen Field in the interest of fair play. Various state and local governments have come out in favor of locating the noisy fighter here, but those opposed don’t have access to the public money or forum.

The GUARDIAN will gladly entertain any “on the record” comments from public officials or others who support basing the F-35 in Boise’s densely populated metro area. The information contained in the graphics is from the US Air Force’s own environmental impact statement.

Another map regarding schools can be found by clicking below.

Comments & Discussion

Comments are closed for this post.

  1. Jim DuFrain
    Feb 28, 2012, 9:38 pm

    Rick,

    Very impressive resume! I applaud your work history.

    Given the time frame I gave you should know that I was not referring to swabbie jets or B-52’s, although I did work on B-52 while in the Air Force. I joined the 747 support group at line number 225 and stayed there for 8 years before transferring to Staff Avionics and Electrical Engineering. I sat in the right seat during several engine trims, or what I remember to be an engine trim. The home owners on the opposite side of the runway were always complaining of the engine noise. Boeing made a ruling that there would be no engine runs after 10:00 PM. I have contacted the ex Factory Supervisor for his thoughts. I will wait for his answer before conceding.

  2. No Jet Noise!
    Feb 28, 2012, 10:33 pm

    To all the Team Dave voters: He’s not listening to you either is he? Your NorthEnder homes will shake from noise and your air will foul with jet smoke too.

    Team Dave will not talk in public about this. Only a junior underling from the airport has been given a brief script to talk from.

    Rick, 50 flights a day is about 15,000 gallons a day of fuel burn at ground level and at least 100,000 gallons of fuel burned each day overall in our trainig area. Are those numbers about right?

  3. No Jet Noise!
    Feb 28, 2012, 11:50 pm

    “Airports are among the greatest sources of local air pollution. A major airport’s idling and taxiing planes can emit hundreds of tons of VOCs and NOx annually. John F. Kennedy International Airport is the second largest source of VOCs in New York City. LaGuardia is among the major sources of NOx…” (link to doc)

    http://ehp03.niehs.nih.gov/article/fetchArticle.action?articleURI=info:doi/10.1289/ehp.971051300

  4. KELLY SUMMERS
    Feb 29, 2012, 1:53 am

    MAN, U GUYS RGUE AN AWFUL LOT ABOOUT HOW MUCH YOU BOTH KNOW, I JUST KNOW THEY ARE ALL LOUD, GO FLY OVER DESERT AREA LEAVE US ALNE IN BOISE.

  5. No Jet noise

    MY guess is the jet holds about 30k pounds of fuel that’s about 4500 gallons 50 flights a day would use between 150k and 200k gallons. If the jet does hole 30k pounds those numbers are probably low by just a bit. I don’t mean to come off like a know it all… but the other side is exaggerating things a lot…. I’m just trying to put out more of the truth

  6. Jim

    Having never worked “trash haulers” aka cargo jets I dont know. I was trying to think of military jets boeing would have had anything to do with.

  7. Why is there no news report in the Statesman about the findings of the EIS, Like the sound print or even covering the meetings? And if it is in there please tell me where? Thanks

    EDITOR NOTE–What difference does it make! That’s why the GUARDIAN exists–to share what the legacy media misses or refuses to cover.

  8. I received an answer from my one-time supervisor and now retired Boeing Factory Manager early this morning. I’ll include his comments as I think they are interesting.

    Bill Blansett says: It has been so long ago for me to remember all of the details, but if I am correct, on the new engines, we only confirmed and recorded the data, but there was little to do or adjust. It was believed that the test runs and adjustments at the engine manufacturers were performed in a more controlled environment and better adjusted than on the airplane. Replacement fuel controls and other major components were checked and “trimmed” if required. In my mind, there were fewer requirements to actually hang all of the remote trim equipment on the engines as we did for so many years.

    Oh, I can still remember the agonizing days of the older B-52 engine trims in Wichita, where I stood crouched under those engines and tried to loosen the trim set screws and watch the manifold gauges at the same time. This was with the blast of hot air from across the oil coolers burning my arms and my brain rattling from the vibration. Then the adjustment when the water injection was turned on was almost unbearable. It took years for the company to finally develop the remote electric screw driver and control box (which only worked half the time).. Then, when you had an engine surge (backfire), it was very unnerving. The larger TF-33 engines were much better, but still required the remote trim. The fan bypass air would make it impossible and dangerous to be that close to the engine under power.

    By the time we got to the P&W JT 9D engine on the 747, The trim equipment was much better, but we had many problems to help wear it out, especially the terrible surge control valves that were prone to fail. End of comments.

    It appears that a major component change, (fuel control etc.) might still require an engine trim. I am still waiting for an answer from Pratt and Whitney. If so it will make a lot of difference on the noise at ground level. That is what I am trying to solve for, and not to impress anyone with my knowledge.

  9. Did someone mention air pollution. Wonder what the dioxin level and other pollutents will be from the shiny new incinerator Dynamis is going to build at Hidden Hollow
    Burning tires, depends and baby diapers must have some negative effect on our pristine air quality

  10. Jim

    There is a vast difference between the engines in a fighter and a big jet. You talk about water injection as far as I know the B52 and KC 135 with J57’s were the only jets to use water. I don’t think water has ever been used on a fighter…. I know for a fact nothing newer than an F 4 has used water. I have changed more than 1 fuel control on F100pw229 engines and they DO NOT reguire a trim….there are NO adjustments possible on the engine and I have Pratt lititure to prove that. A fuel control change on an F15E requires atleast when I worked the an idle run with a CEDS box hooked up to do a real time read, the aircraft is not tied down and there are no burner excursions required. As I said I don’t know about airliners and bombers what I do know is we are talking about state of the art engines, not ones designed in the 50’s and 60’s ie J 57,J 58, TF30 TF33, JT8D . It would not make sense for Pratt to revert to a non DEEC controlled engine after all the advances made with the F100, F119 engine families.

    EDITOR NOTE–Let’s call a truce on the tech stuff. None of the rest of us understand or appreciate it. Please keep the discussion more general.

    We need to compare apples to apples here, not a Porsche to a VW bus.

  11. Done….

    Generally speaking…. fighter jets should NOT be stationed near city’s… city’s should not grow around airports/military bases…if the military expands question them….. if the city grows too close to the base stop them… 313 people will NOT go deaf from the F35… jet engines do NOT spew raw fuel…

    What I think you need to be more concerned with is Vertical takeoff and landing…. just as loud if not louder and longer duration

  12. Editor, please forgive… the question was not meant to a slam. I’m grateful the Guardian is doing it’s thing. Thank you!

    EDITOR NOTE–My response was not intended to elicit sympathy. We share your desire for the legacy press to do more, but alas, those days seem gone forever.

  13. Lin – Monty Mericle gave an interview with the Statesman yesterday. That said the Guardian has been one of the few public points of information and conversation about the F-35 for weeks. As Dave alluded to we’ve reached out to a number of local media entities with only modest response so far. Thank you Guardian!

    At the second public hearing last night those testifying against the F-35 coming to Boise outnumbered those in favor 9 to 1. The testimony of economist, Dr. Kevin Cahill, PhD, that the DEIS is “fundamentally flawed and grossly insufficient” leaves us as citizens without a meaningful way to judge the environmental and socioeconomic impact of the F-35. Translation: it’s probably worse than we think.

    It would be interesting to know what the Air Force does with Dr. Cahill’s expert report. They’re required under NEPA law to issue a clear and effective study on what their planes would do to our community and right now it looks like they don’t have that.

  14. Kevin, Information does seem supressed. How can the emissions level be changed: In the DEIS I noticed that the 100 tons for yearly PSD threshold has been changed for new major sources to 250 tons per year as an indicator of significance for attainment pollutant emissions. If they exceed these levels, further analysis was conducted to determine whether impacts were significant. The addition of 72 F-35 would increase annual NOx emissions within the Boise AGS airspace units by about 335 tons per year this would exceed the threshold of 250 tons but when they average it out over 1,560 miles of training routes and 5700 square mile of airspace. Once again they figure this would produce less than significant impacts on the NAAQS pollutant levels in the Boise AGS airspace. This valley already suffers from inversions so an additional 235 tons of emissions are just going to magically dissipate. For those better informed this information is BO3.3.2.2 Environmental Consequences.

  15. Rick, you questioned the assertion that the F-35s would fly 1,400 sorties per year using afterburner when the F-35s can normally take off without AB. The 1,400 AB sorties number comes directly from the Draft EIS, Table 2-6 “Representative Aircraft Sortie Information That Can Be Applied To F-35A Trainning Activities” under “Departures”, and Table 2-8 “Annual F-35A Sortie Projections” (72 plane scenario). Both these tables are on page 2-19 of the Draft Environmental Impact Statement Executive Summary. I was told this is part of the pilot training requirments which are based on the principal – “Train like you fight and fight like you train.” You can confirm the numbers by visiting the Air Force Website at http://WWW.F-35ATrainingEIS.com.

  16. I was in the Air Force stationed at Mountain Home AFB and can tell you the noise from these type of aircraft is nothing but objectionable. We don’t need F 35’s at Gowan Field. In fact, we don’t need Gowan Field. Those training aspects of the Army and Guard would be best served if move to Mountain Home AFB, and get them all out of Boise. The noise we had a couple of weeks ago from the F 35’s was just a slight example of what could be expected. Don’t allow them to come here. I agree the economic impact might be beneficial, but at what cost. Move them to MHAFB if they have to come to Idaho.

  17. decibel danny
    Mar 1, 2012, 10:15 am

    Monty is a classic example of a grumpy old fart who has nothing better to do in his retirement than complain about what isn’t right in the world around him. He has lived his 65+ years under the blanket of protection we call the United States military and will now proceed to question and complain about the method in which it will now be provided.

    Shame on you Monty! You can be more than the old fart you are waking up to everyday! You were created for more! Dear Lord! Don’t let me wake up 30 years from now with my picture on the front page of the statesman complaining about what isn’t right around me. I’ve lived directly in the flight path for 17 years now and I still get chills when I hear the sounds of freedom!!

    I have the perfect solution. We send Monty and everyone in his area who wants to complain about the noise and send them to live in Afganistan for one year. After a years time we send in the military to rescue all of them with the biggest baddest loudest jets we can find. I cam promise you that our boy Monty has never heard such a joyful sound!! As he fights back the tears in vain, he remembers the complaints and critisism of one year ago and cowers in a cave as he wonders whether or not he is even worthy of rescue. Monty is a blessed man. He lives and breathes under the stars and stripes in a beautiful area of this great nation. Look around you! Life is good! Some day soon, when he has seen the error of his ways, he will be walking outside to go to give volunteer service at the childrens cancer hospital when he hears a noise. it will get louder. But it will not annoy him like in days passed, for he is a changed man! Instead of going to city council meetings to fight against the sounds of freedom, he will be reading books to sick children or the elderly who have lost all of their loved ones and look forward to Monty’s visit everyday. And one day as he is sitting in his car in the hospital parking lot waiting to go inside, he will hear the sound of distant thunder approaching and it will remind him of the life of complaining that was not meant for him. for he is a changed man. We believe in you Monty. You can do it!!

    EDITOR NOTE–Eloquent or not, we don’t want personal attacks. The Anti F-35 folks have been civil and those wrapped in the flag should do the same. If you are in favor of the F-35 say so and don’t get personal. This post and editor comment shall serve as a warning to everyone to refrain from personal attacks, no matter how they are couched. Mr. Mericle has used his real name–something you apparently fear to do.

  18. Noisy Boise Homeowner
    Mar 1, 2012, 11:21 am

    We live over 6 miles from the airport but often wake up when a passenger jet flys over the house after 10p at night. These F35s are going to fly at night so I will need a fan going all night in my bedroom. (Good for Idaho Power Co.) Also the air quality will suffer when we have our frequent inversions in the summer because of forest fires (caused by few log sales on our federal lands). In the winter we will have more smog/fog inversions and snow that won’t melt because of these jets. In the winter we camp in the California desert in the flight path of Navy Jets and know how noisy they are. The quality of life in Boise will deminish but the news media and citizens are asleep at the wheel. I am glad I have mountain property to escape to if needed.

  19. No Jet Noise!
    Mar 1, 2012, 11:42 am

    @ dd,

    I have noting in common with Mr. M, and I hold the highest grade pilot license in the world. I agree with Mr. M on this noise and air pollution issue however, because he is correct. And he has been very courageous to stand up for what he believes in. No doubt many people who do not respect the rights of their brother who disagrees with them… no doubt many people have been foul with him. He is courageous to stand up for the rights of everyone who will lose freedom as a result of this failed idea.

    It sounds like you’ve been in the military? Do you recall way back when… do you recall the day you realized the military was the most wasteful backward screwed up organization you’d ever seen. Well dd, it still is.

    I find you may be short of facts and perhaps some hearing ability as well. The flightpath you live under has been a quiet one though for the 17 years you’ve been there in Boise. If they put these 72 planes here, you won’t need to light your BBQ to cook your chicken. And you might need to increase the flow rate on your oxygen tank too. The sound of freedom is really just the military industrial complex sucking us dry. It’s a big part of the reason why old age entitlements are going to be curtailed in the next few years. That’s our freedom going up in smoke with these wasteful Edsel-like like projects. So in a way you are correct, that really is the sound of freedom being burned up.

    I agree that a strong military is important, but we do not need to give up our freedom and quality of life to have a strong military. That’s why we built them the beautiful playground called MHAFB. They fought like wild dogs to have their training range a few years ago… they said it will not impact Boise or quality of life in the area. They lied. They lie a lot.

  20. Noisy Boise – If you’re so inclined, email your opinion about the F-35 coming to Boise to the Air Force before March 14th: David Martin, Air Force Contractor, and Kim Fornof aetc.a7cp.inbox@us.af.mil. Unlike the public hearings where we were restricted to three minutes per person, you can say as much as you want in your email to the Air Force.

    Also consider sending an F-35 Facts and Impacts flyer to folks you know: http://www.saveourvalleynow.org/F-35_Facts_and_Impacts_-_rev_8_1_.pdf. Ditto for Dr. Cahill’s indictment of the DEIS: http://www.saveourvalleynow.org/Expert_Report_by_Kevin_E_Cahill_-_DRAFT_-_02-26-12_1_.pdf. If you have a relationship with any of our elected officials ask them for their opinion on the F-35 coming to Boise and invite them to explain their position.

    If you have any friends or kin in Canada invite them to support the No Stealth Fighters movement March 3rd: http://www.ceasefire.ca/?p=10434&cpage=1#comment-6147 The Pentagon is counting on sales of the F-35 to allied air forces to help pay the astronomical bill for the project. Already there is growing alarm among these potential F-35 customers that the plane is wildly over-priced and chronically under-performing.

  21. Wow so anti military on here. I have worked around lots of pilots in my day….. not many of them know much about airplanes.

  22. MHAFB has been identified as a (possible) Operational base taking it off the list of proposed Training bases. Gowan is being studied as an F-35 Training base.

  23. Revenge is sweet! All the Vietnam Vets, who were public scorned and ridiculed and took the public anger, instead of the politicians, finally get to have their say, and rightfully so. (and we all know it) That was a shameful history of the American Public directed toward the individuals instead of the power behind them. They are now part and parcel to the manipulated band wagon rhetoric, which is exactly what the politicians are depending on. The absolutely, slanted and bias report by the Statesman, about Monty and saveourvalleynow.org, and the Statesman’s lack of reported facts was the perfect example of how to stir the pot, get neighbor against neighbor, all the while working behind the scenes to accomplish just what they intended. And as we all know, they have none of us included in their best interests. Not that it matters but I did attend all three meetings and read the grueling report that the AF presented. Our emotional responses don’t matter, they just scatter the fire and the target remains untouched. Typical political tactics and military strategy. And the public falls for it every time!

  24. If the F 35 gets stationed at Mt Home we will all get to hear it soon enough. I hope it doesn’t, not because of the noise or anything like that, I am a F15 guy I get a chill every time I hear one of the in the air and I hope they don’t leave Mt Home.

    Some of you are very antimilitary, your purgative, but just remember this, as long as you live free. That freedom given to you by the constitution has been paid for many times over by those who have served this country in the military and if it wasn’t for them you wouldn’t be enjoying those freedoms.

  25. No Jet Noise!
    Mar 1, 2012, 8:24 pm

    @ Rick: It is the loss of that freedom we are concerned about.

    It is leaving us as if we’ve consumed a strong purgative. It is what happens when a government stops respecting its people. We do not live as free as the day I was born, and it is getting worse. Some of the strongest evidence is the massive increase in spending directed at spying and policing within America. TSA junk-check anyone? (Coming to Wal-Mart stores soon.) Look around my friend, you may well be standing in the same place philosophically as many years ago, but your country has changed dramatically. Your individual rights mean less than ever before. It is the work of both political parties who fear restrictions on their uncontrollable spending addiction. This was able to happen because so many suffer from apathy, rigidity of thought, and failure to always question authority.

    That is my prerogative. 😉

  26. Couple of things I’d like to say. First, the video of the F-35 on final approach with the F-16 is awesome. It shows that two airplanes, the F-35 and F-16 landing together at an altitude of 200-300ft had a noise level of only 104db for 8 seconds or less. Any F-35’s flying up and down Boise streets would be at a minimum altitude of 1000ft, so 4-5 times the altitude of those aircraft. That altitude means lower noise levels (dbs) as reported in the EIS. If you chased a F-35 down the freeway without stopping for slow traffic or stop lights you may be able to keep it in sight for about 2 miles at best, never getting close enough to it to suffer hearing loss according to OSHA studies on db’s of time and proximity.
    I have lived in Boise by the airport for 32 years, near Victory and Maple Grove. I did that because when I moved here the F-4’s were at Gowen Field and I loved watching them and wanted to be close. Now, the traffic noise on Victory is far worse to me because it starts at 5:00am and does not slow down until after midnight, it’s constant. I can’t imagine telling people, like you are, that if one more loaded semi or Harley comes down Victory, making noise, I was going to sue the company that makes these trucks and bikes or hires them to be on my road. The way I look at it, if you have been concerned about the noise generated at the Boise Airport now is the perfect time to move, before the planes get here. Don’t be concerned about the thousands of military families moving in and out of Boise while they train that need homes because you’ll already be gone, we know no one would want your house because of the noise. Oh…how about those pilots that would like to live near the airport because of how easy it is to get to work…nah
    Second….Rick, you made my day my friend, Thank you for trying to calm the scared few and Thank you very much for your service. You rock!

  27. Lance

    Thank you very much, I tried but I have been told to cut it out.

    No Jet Noise.. I dont know what to say so I will say this, If you dont like it…. I will not respond to any more of your comments they seem to be designed to just insight.

    I will say this, in my opinion you are wrong plain and simple.

  28. Lance and Rick – I love watching the jets going over as much as the next guy. When a squadron of B1 Bombers flew into Boise one summer evening a couple of years ago my wife teased me when I ran out to watch. I happened to be on south Maple Grove once when a group of four A-10s banked sharply over West Jr. High to go in for a landing. That was a moment.

    Having a public conversation about the F-35 is a good thing. It’s one of the benefits of living in a democracy. I listened to a Russian journalist on NPR yesterday describe how Vladimir Putin systematically dismembered the free press in Russia when he came to power. Under that system we wouldn’t be sharing our opinions back and forth out the open like this. http://www.npr.org/2012/03/01/147653086/masha-gessen-how-vladimir-putin-rose-to-power

    It’s easy for all of us to project our hopes and concerns for the future onto the F-35. It is useful, however, to examine the experience of folks who actually live with the F-35. Unlike the city fathers of Boise and Tuscon, Arizona who are trying to attract the F-35 to their cities, the city fathers of Valparaiso, Florida took the Air Force to court because the noise of the jet was so intrusive. When you go to the Valparaiso website you’ll find a link where citizens can file noise complaints about the F-35. Hopefully it doesn’t come to that here in Boise.

  29. Jim DuFrain
    Mar 2, 2012, 12:10 pm

    Lance,

    You seem to forget that the figures you give are taken from airplanes LANDING when they are throttled back to lose airspeed. Go to the other end of the runway for a real test of their noise level. Quite different I can assure you!

  30. Jim Dufrain,

    You are forgetting that at point they are as low as they will ever be to the ground just before landing and they (as you could plainly hear) were throttling to reach the field. Anyone standing at the end of a runway with a db meter to use to compalin about noise levels is like sticking your head in a fireplace to see if it’s hot.

  31. Jim DuFrain
    Mar 3, 2012, 5:59 am

    Lance

    I’m not forgetting anything, just trying to give you my thoughts after 41 years of aircraft maintenance and engineering.

    Before assuming a landing profile the airplane is going far in excess of landing speed. They don’t slow to the 140 – 160 mph (a reasonable guess on the F-35) landing speed by throttling the engine up. They may have to slightly advance the throttle to maintain the glide path and keep from stalling but it would never be 100% engine power. During takeoff, that and burner on is where maximum noise is generated and it is for the length of the runway and until they reach climbout speed and throttle back with burner off that the maximum noise level decreases.

  32. Jim

    Never said it was full power, as a pilot I know what it takes to land a plane, everytime I take off I have to land. These planes are doing touch and goes from the look of it. They are also coming out of a hard turn at very low altitude which they don’t do with the power pulled back, right? You can clearly hear them throttling because of the distance to the airport.
    Bottom line here is that this is a whole lot to do about nothing. This plane isn’t the devil you want it to be. I want to be proud of what Boise has to offer, not ashamed. We have the opportunity to get the newest,hottest fighter in our countries inventory but there are those that can’t handle the idea of giving up anything to let that happen. It’s OK by me if we don’t get this great plane, problem is I don’t think Boise can handle much more walking backwards looking for what it is that’s going to keep us moving forward. I can’t believe that you would fight the very thing that could help us out. It’s not great, I realise that, but it’s something.
    I’m going to agree to disagree, I’m set, retired, own my home, happly married, have great toys to play with and enjoy sitting on my porch watching and listening to the planes fly over when I can. I work with all the veterans organizations in the valley and I’m doing something to help them. (PERSONAL COMMENT DELETED)

    I’m not going to continue to come to this site anymore because there is nothing you could say that makes any sense to the position you are taking on the F-35. In the long run this is a very small inconvenience at best.

  33. No Jet Noise!
    Mar 3, 2012, 6:49 pm

    @Lance: It is the video of the F-16 and the F-35 on short-final landing approach that you two are talking about? If so, these aircraft glide like a stone, so partial thrust is needed to get to the airport while maintaining a normal glide path. With gear and flaps extended it requires yet a little more thrust. Additionally, we always keep turbines spooled up when near the ground to prevent flameout and in case we need full power quickly, so drag brakes are used along with minimal thrust to give a safety buffer. Not even close to the power needed for T/O and climb though, as you know. Long story short, those two planes on the video are as quiet as they can be and a poor representation of the noise levels that will be produced by 50 takeoffs a day.

    Interesting how the F-35 is still louder that the F-16 in the video though… must be some kinda funky turns or radar screens in the intake giving it a bit more whistle.

    The little legacy airforce town in FL that is suing the USAF over excessive noise thought it would be a small inconvenience too, until they had to live it. They thought they knew what loud aircraft where prior to the F-35 also. We are just learning from their mistake.

    I would like to add that funding a pork project like this is more likely taking money away from veterans rather than helping them as you infer. It also will damage the local economy to a net negative (no more best place to live and work awards). It also damages the overall nation by funding a toy that we don’t need and is already falling short. The F-35 is a test aircraft that got pushed too far. That’s why these things are called pork projects even by the fattest people in DC.

    In comparison: Look up the origins and progress of the F-16, the most amazing thing we ever did overall, they got that project done right. The F-35 is plodding along much more like the F-111 and many other over-priced paper weights from our cold-war past.

    Editor: This post is getting very long, so nearly every angle of this thing has been covered already more than once. Thank you so much for doing what the media will not. So sad that Team Dave is still hiding.

  34. Lance, you said “The way I look at it, if you have been concerned about the noise generated at the Boise Airport now is the perfect time to move, before the planes get here.”

    What happens to those of us who cannot afford to move? How are we supposed to “move before the planes get here”? Please enlighten me on this one because I do not know anyone in their right mind who would buy a house that is valued at half of what the mortgage owed on it is. I blame that on me though, should have anticipated the value of my house to drop a full year after I bought it, and continue to drop every year since.

    Single income family with a daughter who has super sensitive ears. Was so happy that it was semi-quiet air traffic wise today. My daughter was able to get outside and play without wearing her hearing protection for most of the time. 3 year old wearing hearing protection, not something I like seeing, but sure beats watching her run around covering her ears screaming “TOO LOUD, TOO LOUD..”

    I am not anti-military. I am proud of my husband who served in Iraq, my cousin who served in the Gulf War, my uncle who served in Vietnam, and my Grandfather who served in World War 2.

    Had it not been for medical problems, I would be enlisted serving my country. I have many friends who are in the military, and have served in Iraq or Afghanistan.

    I am glad that people have fought for my freedoms and will continue to fight for my daughters freedom. One freedom I would love to see my daughter have is to be able to go outside and play without wearing hearing protection, or better yet, not having to wear hearing protection when she’s inside the house. Of course this is my fault, and I take full responsibility for buying a house close to the airport before my daughter was born so she would have a house to live in, a back yard to play in while growing up. I take full responsibility for my daughter having super sensitive ears, and having to wear hearing protection with our current military planes, and commercial jet liners. I just won’t stand by and watch them bring in F35’s, while my daughter will be the one who ends up suffering.

    No, I don’t want anyone’s sympathy, that’s not why I’m posting. I just want people to realize that there are people out there that will be affected no matter how small or large the change in db’s will be.

    While some people may think that the F-35’s are the greatest thing since sliced bread, I think that they really should not be located this close to the city of Boise.

  35. This discussion thread has discussed a lot of different things but no one has even talked about what the noise would actually do… What about the psychological implications? Losing sleep and being sleep deprived, increase noises tend to incur more aggression, concentration will be decreased along with the inability to focus on a task, risk of hearing impairment from excessive noise, scholastic performance will decrease, there are so many things that can result in excessive noise areas. This definitely needs to be addressed.

  36. You raise troubling issues, EHB. We do need data on noise pollution. Despite two public elementary schools being included in the 65 dB DNL noise contour Lieutenant Governor Little testified that we really need the economic benefit of an F-35 training base at the Boise airport. I was also struck by the number of veterans who testified against bringing the F-35 here because they’d lost some of their hearing in the military.

  37. This was taken from nwfdailynews.com Valparasio Fla’s paper. Sounds like the suit was settled with the AF, so now maybe we can get past the scare tactic being used here.

    Air Force, Val-P settle F-35 lawsuit (SETTLEMENT)
    March 01, 2010 4:34 PM http://www.nwfdailynews.com/articles/valparaiso-26362-air-force.html#ixzz1ogFHmChI

  38. No Jet Noise!
    Mar 9, 2012, 10:55 pm

    Boo! Many hard facts in this post which Rick agreed with:

    Noise will be louder than anything ever based at Boise, Volume of flights will be far more than anything ever based at Boise, Air pollution will likely become the largest source in Ada/Canyon county cause by the burning of about 15,000 gallons of fuel per day an the airport and upward of 100,000 gallons per day in flights near Boise. Economic damage turning many homes into scrap value overnight. Noise and fumes which will be experienced even in the northend and Meridian. Pilots from all over the world learning how to fly their new airplane over your house and school.

    You are correct Rick, I do fear these facts.

    The way to beat it is to have the EPA stop it because our air quality is often below par and similar to the LA area. Also get the FAA to mandate noise restrictive flight paths rather than the voluntary ones we have now. And vote out the Mayor for counting the money he would win without concern for the money lost to property values on the individual.

  39. Thanks for posting the story on the Valparaiso settlement, Rick. There’s no need to use Valparaiso’s experience with the F-35 as a scare tactic. As one of the only communities to actually deal with the F-35 so far their experience is instructive.

    It catches my eye, for instance, that Valparaiso didn’t get full noise data on the F-35 until they sued the Air Force under the Freedom of Information Act. Just as the Air Force was loath to share noise data with Valparaiso, so they’ve been less than forthcoming in the Boise and Tuscon DEIS. All we have so far are noise contour maps based on noise averages modeled in a computer simulation. It looks like they’ve studied the matter but they haven’t told us anything of substance.

  40. Kevin
    You are right, it is instructive, it tells me that the noise is not nearly as bad as you all are portraying. If it was that bad the city would not have settled they would have gone on with the suit.
    Jet noise,
    You don’t fear the facts, you skew them the way you feel will get the best response for your side. Go to Mt Home stand a mile away and listen you will hear the truth. None of you will do that because you don’t want to know the truth, I feel like Nicholson.
    I guess the biggest thing that bothers me about this whole argument as a Veteran is this you people live under the freedom that having a military provides you, yet you rail against those that allow you to have that very freedom. If those people who live on the bases can live with the noise then you can too, you are no more important than they are.
    You who compare Boise to LA remember what you told us when you moved here from cali. Were coming and if you don’t like it get out, we heard that a lot.

  41. No Jet Noise!
    Mar 10, 2012, 3:11 pm

    Valparasio, FL is a very small town which shares a boundary with the air base in question. They have very little money to fight. The agreement is a victory for the town because the USAF said it recognizes the noise from the F-35 is too much and will not use the runway nearest the town. You need to read the report you posted. David won the fight as best they could. At least they had town leadership on their team. Many of the residence of the Florida town suing the USAF, are veterans or active duty serving on the nearby base. The noise really is that bad Rick.

    Near the noise: Been there done that. Have made a lot of noise in fact. The F-15E at one mile away on takeoff is well above 65db. It is still too loud at 3 miles for a residential area. And that’s just one ship. How about a 4-ship formation launch. Of the chart ground shaking noise for miles. It’s why MHAFB is so far from town perhaps. Is it possible you have suffered hearing loss back in the day like everyone else on the flightline?

    I’ve met Jack Nicholson… Had him on my airplane. Rick you’re no Jack Nicholson.

    The military is needed and loved by me so long as they stay out of my back yard. They are one of the largest land owners in America, they can let me relax on my land in peace and quiet without compromising their readiness. I have willingly spent lots of money to buy them toys. They are not very responsible however and always want a better toy than the perfectly good ones they have now. Our future federal budgets will fix this habit for them. Unfortunately the military leadership has traditionally shorted the Veterans in favor of more toys. I will work to change that too.

    The air quality in Boise is still similar to LA. It has improved since the influx of Cali people. But that is mostly because I retired my burn-barrel stove and old Ford-N, not because of the Cali people.

  42. ok noise you win….and congrats on meeting Jack, played poker with him a couple times, nice enough guy..never said I was him.. btw what airline do you fly for?

  43. No Jet Noise!
    Mar 11, 2012, 2:51 pm

    Rick, The facts win.

    Why do you troll on here for people’s personal information? I’ve noticed this is the case with you on the probation posts as well. Kind of creepy. If you do not ask directly you state presumptions about posters which seem to be intended to cause the poster to reply with the corrected information. What are your intentions with the personal info you scape together?

  44. No Jet Noise!
    Mar 11, 2012, 2:59 pm

    Wow! This is so cool!! I just love it when stuff works.

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/153623

  45. Today is the last day to submit comments to the Air Force on the F-35A Draft Environmental Impact Study. According to the Air Force all concerns will be addressed in the final EIS. Email or fax your comments to:

    David Martin, Air Force Contractor, and Kim Fornof

    HQ AETC/A7CPP

    266 F Street West, Bldg. 901

    Randolph AFB, TX 78150-4319

    Fax: 210-652-5649 Tel. 210-652-1961

    Email: aetc.a7cp.inbox@us.af.mil

  46. The Arizona Center for Law in the Public Interest has released its expert report on the F-35 Draft Environment Impact Statement. Citing incomplete data, wrong data and misleading data in the DEIS, the Arizona legal team gives the study a failing grade. A copy of the report is available online: http://www.scribd.com/doc/85470452/The-Arizona-Center-for-Law-in-the-Public-Interest-Slices-and-Dices-the-F-35A-DEIS

  47. Jim DuFrain
    Mar 30, 2012, 4:17 am

    I wrote the engine manufacturer long ago but did not receive any response until today.

    Hello Jim – To answer your question, the F-35 aircraft and engine are designed to not require a high power engine run after maintenance at the unit level. Therefore the type of engine trim operation the reader is asking about would not be required at the base level only at the depot level and in that case the run would be done in a hush house.

Get the Guardian by email

Enter your email address:

Categories