Business

Ice World Policies Skating On Thin Ice

After the fiasco over 11-13 year old hockey players being forced to use the lobby of Idaho Ice World to change instead of a locker room as punishment for the action of a single player, the GUARDIAN has been flooded not only with comments, but more news tips.

We have “done our homework” regarding the issue of Boise City’s paid “skating director” who also gives private skating lessons at Ice World. One camp says it is a conflict of interest for her to receive payment for private lessons using her city job as the basis for the instructor role.

The city’s ethics panel is driven primarily by the “pecuniary interest” rule of an employee making money from their position or while on duty. We think she is skating on thin ice.

Officialdom tells us the matter has “been discussed in the past” and an arrangement has been agreed upon which requires her to give lessons only when she is not on the clock working for the city. The problem as we see it is this: She can log in and log out on her city computer to accommodate her private business.

Discussions with managers, both within the city and at other government agencies, indicate such a liberal “punch in-punch out policy” is unique to the Ice World skating director and would not be tolerated by most employers.

Other staffers at Ice World say they would not be able to run a business while on duty by simply clicking their computer time clock on and off. Morale is not good out there.

EDITOR NOTE: Keep the comments civil and factual please. We will not post comments regarding the thoughts of a third party, intentions, etc. This director may be a wonderful person, adored by all who know her. The question is about the policy–NOT the individual.

Comments & Discussion

Comments are closed for this post.

  1. Team Dave has a poor record on enforcing moonlighting while on/off the job. Maybe the City of Boise should come up with an official policy. It shoudl include how many hours allowed and what times during the day.
    http://boiseguardian.com/?s=moonlighting

    In regards to keeping comments factual and on track, this has also come up before. Anonymous posting generally leads to good tips, but also can get out of hand. http://boiseguardian.com/2009/02/27/sources-and-attribution-a-discussion/

    BTW- Clancy is my real name.

  2. Back in the day when I lived near the beach we routinely changed clothes from wet to dry with the use of a large beach towel. You wrapped it around your waist and changed your clothes. Nobody gave it a thought. The same method could be used at Ice World.

    EDITOR NOTE–As we read it, the issue is not showing skin or even having space to change. The hockey kids were denied use of the locker room as PUNISHMENT for the behavior of a single player. It also appears to be a “gender insensitive” response by many readers. Imagine the outcry if little girls had been told to change in the same area wearing bra and panties. Boys in jockey shorts seems a different story.

  3. canfamily1972
    Apr 5, 2012, 4:06 pm

    If you were familiar with Idaho Ice World’s policies, you would know that the Skating Director and two Hockey Director’s are the “ONLY” ones permitted to provide lessons “off their company time”. This is allowed by the City of Boise. They are also the only ones “qualified” in that building to “provide lessons” ..which is why they are the “Directors”. So I dont know what other “staffers” you are referring to but I can guarantee you that they are NOT “qualiifed” staffers to even give lessons. I ask you this, Mr. Editor, at what point will you stop listing to MORE of Mr. Andresen and his counter-part’s ridiculous banter, and start reporting the facts?

    EDITOR NOTE–Hockey and Skating directors are two different people. PLEASE! Do not bring people into a story unless you have some facts or documents. Andresen was NOT a source so don’t go fishing for names. You talk about staffers giving lessons, but no one has ever said anything about anyone other than the “skating director” giving lessons.
    Read the post again!

  4. Not Taking Sides
    Apr 5, 2012, 5:22 pm

    I believe the hockey director was required to sign an agreement stating he would not receive any compensation or reimbursement associated with coaching a team (off the clock). I am just wondering what the difference between the two positions are or were?

  5. canfamily1972
    Apr 5, 2012, 9:52 pm

    Not taking side: How are you so privy to the agreement the HD had with the city? Perhaps you were that “woman’ who went downtown and nosily asked for it so you could cause all of this heartache for this family in the first place. We all know who you are (the editor is the one not allowing me to list your name) But rest assured knowing that everyone knows what kind of person you are. You are the most hated woman in youth hockey. What a sad pathetic route you have taken this to.

  6. I will say it again.. this is what you get when the government gets in the entertainment business.

  7. Your articles are getting pretty pathetic Guardian. I used to enjoy reading your page. FAIL

  8. canfamily1972
    Apr 6, 2012, 9:29 am

    We at IIW already know your “source” is a former disgrunteled Asst. Hockey Director. Maybe he needs to remember that the skating and Hockey Director’s were both very good to him. Too bad he has allowed his emotions to get in the way of his logic.

  9. Not Taking Sides
    Apr 6, 2012, 9:47 am

    @canfamily1972- Just for the record I am not who you think I am. I think the City has just lost the best HD they have ever had. That is why I would like to know what the difference is between the two Director’s positions. The ethics comittee’s decision is a matter of Public record. I am trying to stay on the policy point and not the people as the guardian ask.

  10. If any of the three skating directors were to give private lessons off the clock they would have to put in a lot of hours at IIW in order to fulfill the 40 hours they are getting paid for. This would suggest that they would be very accessible as they would be at the area for much more than the average full-time worker.
    The other question would be if they pay for the ice time for the private lesson..or is it considered a “perk”..or does the city allow for them to use the ice without having to pay for it…?

    EDITOR NOTE–Fair question regarding rental of ice time. Please get a public records request for ice time rental and we will gladly post it.

  11. hoceyisLIFEishockey
    Apr 6, 2012, 10:15 am

    @ Canfamily1972
    At what point does the EX-HD take responsibility for the situation he is currently in? The city would never fire or force the resignation of a HD just because of a few “unfounded allegations.” That’s just plain ignorant. Saying that he wasn’t paid by the Jr. Steelheads is an outright lie. There are tax documents and records that prove he’s been paid by the Jr. Steelheads as well as the “reimbursements” by the team. Bottom line is that the EX-HD was told how he could remain the city’s hockey director as well as a coach on the Jr. Steelheads team. The city’s ethics committee even spelled it out for him in a clearly written document that is available on the web for anyone to see.

    http://www.cityofboise.org/CityGovernment/EthicsCommission/PDF/AdvisoryOpinions/AdvisoryOpinion08-06.pdf

    (ACCUSATION DELETED) It seems like this blog has a lot of finger pointing and blaming as if to say that it’s “the lady that shall not be named” and Mr. Andreson’s fault the HD is no longer with the city. I don’t understand that line of thinking…….here’s my analogy: a guy walks in a convenience store and steals groceries and snack items. He knows he’s not supposed to take the items, but he has a family at home to feed and things are tight in this economy. The store owner catches him taking these items and calls the police……..would you start yelling at the store owner that it’s his fault this guy is in trouble? It’s the same scenario, only the EX-HD (or at least his fan-club) isn’t thinking rationally. I get it, this whole situation is terrible and truly nobody wins on this deal, but at the end of the day instead of lashing out and blaming anything and everyone around you…….we wouldn’t be having this discussion on this blog if the EX-HD had just followed the rules that were given to him by his employer in the first place.

  12. I am wondering what the difference is between a golf pro working at a public course giving golf lessons v. this person giving ice skating lessons. Generally, golf pros at local courses are a contract employee who tries to make a buck the best way he can.

  13. Paul, I think Warm Springs is the only municipal course in town. I wonder how they handle it.

    EDITOR NOTE–Surprise! We got a factual answer with no dodging from the Warm Spring Pro. He told the GUARDIAN he “covers” his 40 hours with the city, gives lessons for $60 per hour and the city takes 25% ($15). Imagine a straight answer to a fair question.

  14. Man, Guardian, the comments you’ve been getting recently and the back-and-forth banter is *almost* as entertaining as the unedited mayor hotline calls. What ever happened to Mayor Hotline posts, by the way??

    EDITOR NOTE–For whatever reason the hotline has been reduced to meaningless “issue” one liners like this recent collection:
    ISSUE: Illegal parking by Cathedral of the Rockies on Sundays.
    ISSUE: Doesn’t like jet noise.
    ISSUE: Disagrees with jet flyovers.
    ISSUE: Opposes public financing for a stadium. He’d like to provide input.
    ISSUE: Doesn’t support Local Option Authority.

    City councilors are given this exact list to judge citizen input to the Hotline.

  15. Our country is going to Hell in a hand basket and you guys in Boise are fighting about a ice skating rink that was donated to the city by Simplot because it was such a loser for him

    At least in Idaho City we know where our tax money is going to for the next 20 years or so…. paying off the lawsuits that we lost…

    Maybe if more folks would move up here I would have to pay a little less of my share…

    Help me spread the word Mr. Guardian…

  16. Still not taking sides
    Apr 6, 2012, 7:36 pm

    @hoceyislife – I think the bigger question and back to the point is why the city or ethics committee would require the HD to agree to those stipulations in the first place. How are the two directors jobs different? Why can one make money on the side and the other one can’t?

  17. I did my homework and called IIW. I found out that ice rental is $250/hr. If the skating director just punches out and doesn’t have to pay for ice then WOW what a great perk! I also found out that there are three hockey camps coming to town this summer. Stamm power skating, Turcotte stick handling and Mylymok hockey camp. I called the Stamm school and found out that they will have to pay the full $250/hr for ice. Turcotte did not respond but I will assume the same rate. I found out that the former HD had his camp at the rink for the past several years and wonder if he has to pay $250/hr for ice or is this a perk too? Fair question so don’t shoot me. I can probably find this out without much trouble. Last question Dave, who decides who is “qualified” to be the instructors with the ice “perk”? Is is the arena manager? Is it the skating/hockey director themselves? Things don’t seem right at IIW.

  18. Hockey 4 Life
    Apr 6, 2012, 10:24 pm

    @ Answer…For one, the cost of ice depends on the time slot that it is being reserved for. A Sunday morning sheet of ice is less expensive than a sheet of ice Friday or Saturday night. When the coaches (hockey or ice skating coaches) provide private lessons they are doing so during stick times or during freestyle which means the ice is already slotted for all would like to get on the ice at that time and would not cost any individual $250. Both the instructor and the skater would pay whatever that cost would be…I believe it is 8 dollars for stick times. Not sure about Free Style.

  19. You want answers?
    Apr 6, 2012, 10:30 pm

    @answer – The ice time prices are listed on the website at $185 and $235 an hour. NO one gets discounted ice, whether you work there or not. There are no “perks”. All the skating coaches are reguired to pay for their skating time, whether it be a Public session, Freestyle or Stick time session. During the former HD’s camp he was off the clock and paid full price for his ice time. Camps have to be approved by the GM, you can ask the coaches that have had to go through the USA Hockey background checks and seminars to see what qualifications are required. Or the skating coaches that have to take tests and more to be able to teach classes. So what else doesn’t seem right?

  20. City Policy:

    Document Type: Policy
    Number: 4.35
    Effective: 05-01-06
    Revised: 01-24-12
    Legal References: Resolution
    #21563
    OUTSIDE EMPLOYMENT
    The City of Boise recognizes that employees may decide to seek additional employment
    during their off hours. The City does not prohibit this as long as the additional employment
    does not conflict with or detract from the employee’s responsibilities as a City employee.
    Despite any outside employment, an employee’s position with the City is an employee’s
    primary responsibility. Employees are prohibited from using City equipment or property to
    perform their outside employment. Outside employment is not an excuse for such things as
    poor job performance, tardiness, absenteeism, or refusal to work overtime.
    City employees are prohibited from providing outside employment services to other City
    employees who fall within their reporting structure, including all employees who they
    supervise or who supervise them. This policy applies to all supervisory relationships
    regardless of whether the supervision occurs directly or through subordinate supervisors.
    All employees holding outside employment, including self-employment, must inform their
    supervisor of the nature of the work and the hours when they work. The supervisor can
    then determine if the outside employment interferes with the employee’s performance or
    creates an actual or apparent conflict of interest

  21. here's your answer
    Apr 7, 2012, 3:01 pm

    @Answer: At ten years, Mylmok Camps is the longest standing hockey camp in Idaho History. They have been in Idaho each summer since 2002. (and that was when the HD was just a player for the Steelhead’s and way before he was the HD for the City of Boise.)
    PS: The Hockey Director is a “Level 5″ Instructor, the highest honor avaiable to youth coaches. He is one of three in the State of Idaho.

  22. Not Taking Sides
    Apr 7, 2012, 6:15 pm

    @doggone- so in your opinion is either director following those guidelines when teaching private lessons or coaching a travel hockey program?

  23. here's your answer
    Apr 8, 2012, 5:19 pm

    Answer: I am a parent who does the books for the Mylmok’s camp as a trade for camps. I am positive they would not mind me posting this information. So, I can earnestly tell you that their Camps have always been nothing other than a customer to IIW. Idaho Ice World permits only three hockey camps per summer and the GM’s, (past and present), have always chose MC as one of the returners due to its popularity as well as for the great product they put out on and off the ice. The business is owned through his wife’s name, and she pays the same ice fees as all other camps do. (you can go to their website and obtain a phone number for Mrs. M. as I am sure she would be happy to answer any questions you have pertaining to costs, etc.) Summer hockey camps have come and gone in Idaho, but Mylmok Camps had stayed solid because of what they offer to the kids. FYI: they ONLY hire Instructors that have played or are currently playing Pro hockey teach our kids. All of which have years of either NHL, AHL or ECHL playing experience. That is their requirement in order to instruct for them. And believe you me, they pay a pretty penny for them! My children have enjoyed this camp for years so I will not allow you or anyone else to put false or unfounded information out there.

  24. When the city took over, they made the grave error of transferring some of the dead weight from the Simplot payroll to the city payroll. Figure skating coaches at that rink have engaged in childish and unprofessional behavior for years. Plus, they suck. But they’ve got some parents bamboozled into thinking they’re hot stuff. What a joke.

  25. Not Taking Sides
    Apr 10, 2012, 6:32 pm

    Still waiting for someone to explain what the difference between the two directors positions were…… The City of Boise recognizes that employees may decide to seek additional employmentduring their off hours. The City does not prohibit this as long as the additional employment
    does not conflict with or detract from theemployee’s responsibilities as a City employee.
    Despite any outside employment, an employee’s position with the City is an employee’s
    primary responsibility. Employees are prohibited from using City equipment or property to perform their outside employment. So did the TWO directors fit this wording?

  26. Is she paid by the Boise Figure Skating Club. Does a Percentage of her lessons fee go back to the city like the golf instructor.

  27. isnt this going a little over the top…. weve gone from hockey to golf to figure skating…. we need a story about the tennis director, basketball director ,football director, and the chess director.

  28. Hockey 4 Life
    Apr 11, 2012, 4:41 pm

    Heres a thought. I could be mistaken. I believe that all figure skating coaches are considered City Employees as they provide training in Learn To Skate Classes. Based on the “Employees are prohibited from using City equipment or property to perform their outside employment” description, wouldn’t that mean that none of the skate coaches can provide private lessons at IIW? The City might want rethink the wording because if they continue with this they will be loosing money from many skaters that also pay for public ice times,stick times and freestyle skate times. That would be a good plan now wouldn’t it? I would assume the phrase “equipment” was more in reference to items like tractors and lawnmowers not sheets of ice.
    Again, I am not positive the skate coaches are also City Employees.

  29. On the Edge
    Apr 11, 2012, 6:41 pm

    All the skating coaches are employees of the city when they are teaching for the Learn to Skate classes. When they do private lessons they also have to be off the clock. They all set their own prices to teach private lessons, pay for whatever ice they and their students are skating on. The city does not receive any percentage of the money they make during the private lessons. The helpers or Jr. coaches are paid in Freestyle passes and are not city employees. This situation is a common practice in most skating rinks.

  30. Use to be on the Edge
    Apr 11, 2012, 7:08 pm

    1. Makes you wonder how the skating director manages to put in 40 hours and teach the amount of private lessons she does.
    2.(COMMENT DELETED FOR LACK OF DOCUMENTATION on personal allegation)
    3. Why do the figure skating coaches get to be city employees and the jr. coaches get paid in freestyle passes but the hockey coaches are all “volunteers”? Why don’t they get paid in stick time or pick up passes?
    4. Why don’t you ever see the skating director running any of the camps except one? You could almost always find at least one of the hockey directors out on the ice running their camps.
    5. These have been on going questions for along time, maybe now we can get some answers? Is it double standards, or conflicts of interest?
    6. I have no issues with any of the coaching staff, hockey or figure. I am sure as Guardian put it they are all “wonderful” people and adored by their students and players. We couldn’t have a rink without them but fair is fair.

  31. Also on the Edge
    Apr 11, 2012, 10:08 pm

    @Use to be on the Edge,

    Some answers to your questions:
    1. She gets there at around 5:30-6:00am and doesn’t leave until 5-7pm each night.

    3. This is a great point to bring up to the hockey division at the rink! I trust the hockey coaches would greatly appreciate this :)

    4. The skating director runs 3 camps each year–spring break great to skate, summer great to skate, advanced figure skating camp.

    5. Directly contacting the rink and the persons in question would be the best way to get answers.

    Answer to @Confused’s question: The Boise Figure Skating Club is non-profit and does not pay any of the coaches.

    Coaches are employed with the City only during Learn to Skate. Otherwise, they are independent contractors of the rink and are required to pay in full for ice time.

    I am not sure what golf/Warm Springs has to do with hockey or figure skating.

    Although there are undoubtedly flaws at IceWorld, as with all other organizations/businesses/enterprises, I would also like to bring up the extreme bias of this article. The author does not cite his or her sources (is this credible?), and presents vague points.

    EDITOR NOTE–Re golf: someone asked about arrangements between golf pro giving lessons and city job. He answered in a previous comment…city gets 25% of his $60 per hr. private lessons.

  32. Both articles are disturbing. I have a son who playes for the jr steelheads program and a daughter who is a figure skater. I do not think that the woman who is not named but is one of the biggest pot stirrers I have ever seen, meant for it to go to the figure skating side of the ice. But it is only fair that the same policies be held for both directors. If the hd is not allowed to take payments for coaching and traveling with a hockey team he coaches. And shouldn’t take rebursments for travel then how is this different from the skating director taking payment for when she takes skaters to competitions and tests? This is a normal standard in figure skating, parents split cost of their child’s coaches to go to events. If he should not have his job then neither should she. This being said I feel both of them are positive influences for the kids involved in both ice sports. Both of my kids look up to these adults. I know my son is devastated by the loss of Jeremy and my daughter would feel the same if the skating director left too. This is a shame when an issue was brought up and blown way out of control and things where made up by a few people who loved their coach until their team started losing. (PERSONAL ATTACK ON A PREVIOUS COMMENTER HAS BEEN DELETED) I am proud my son plays for the jr steelheads. And was honored when he was coached by Jeremy and loved that when my daughter skated she was able to work some with the skating director as well as her other amazing coach who worked at iiw. In my lame opinion this is all a bunch of useless drama that will in the end hurt these people their families and the youth who all love both ice sports.

    Ps coaches as well as skaters pay for their freestyle time and stick and puck time just like the skaters do.

    EDITOR NOTE–Comments on Ice World are closed. They have degenerated into personal attacks on individuals and between those who comment. We provided the forum after some claimed the city was unresponsive. The GUARDIAN has been in contact with the City Parks Dept., but no information has been forthcoming. Calls have not been returned, lawyers have told them not to talk to us, the Human Resources Dept. refuses to return calls. At this point there is nothing more for us to do. You can use the CONTACT button to communicate with the GUARDIAN off the public site.

  33. Use to be on the Edge
    Apr 12, 2012, 6:43 am

    @ Also on the Edge –
    1. Are you there during all those hours? How many of those hours involve these private lessons?
    4. If you are ever there during those 3 camp times you will notice that you don’t see the director on the ice teaching except for the Advanced camp.
    As to whether this article is biased, I believe the Guardian was just asking again about the conflict of interests. As far as being able to contact the rink or the city you can’t get answers to these type of questions.

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