Personally, I think the best possible scenario, long term, would be to have the Guard move its base way out south. I know that this is something that has been discussed.

Like Mountain Home?

What in the world are the people thinking when they promote basing the F-35 at the Boise Airport? The noise complaints will be endless. The best example I can offer is El Torro Marine Air Base. Around the clock ops and expensive homes in the area put a big fat target on it when bases were closed all over the country in 1994.

Everything the Marine Corps had was flying day and night. The base was in the middle of orange groves for years and years but growth and demand for housing proved to be the driving force and good planning gave way to developers and what I like to call TOILET TERRACE HOMES taking over the area.

Bench Warmer. Thank you so much for your honest comments. Very well said.

Monty. Thank you for your reply. The information provided your website was presented to the Columbia Village Home Owner Association Board on Tuesday 02/21 and they were not receptive. The board believes this is not a serious proposition and the likelihood of it happening is slim. They say the City has to post public notices, send out public mailers and hold public hearings before anyone needs to get concerned and since the City has not done any of those things our concerns are unnecessary (hysterical and anti military was implied in my opinion). The board even went as far as to say the upcoming February 27, 28, 29 meetings are not sponsored by “officials” but are just put on by citizens who are unnecessarily concerned. Can you please set the record straight, who is sponsoring the meetings in February? and will “save our valley now” be present at the meeting?

Does any one remember how up in arms everyone got in the early 90’s when the valley was inundated by another undesireable influx. I remember hearing were coming get over it or get out.

Much as with that influx the AF will come if they decide too, and those that oppose will be told the same thing those of us who were here pre 90, get over it or get out.

Mini Micron ville was built at the end of the run way, you knew it when you bought there, did you not think the airport would never have more or louder traffic?
People who buy in a air traffic pattern have no right to complain when the amount of traffic grows, just as those who bought next to the cheese factory have no right to complain about noise from the factory, or someone who buys property in farm country have no fight to complain about farm noises or smells.

Take responsibility for your own actions, not everyone will bow to you.

Andrea, the public meetings on February 27th, 28th, and 29th are being sponsored by the Air Force as a requirment of the EIS process. SaveOurValleyNow.org will not be allowed to present anything at the meetings, but we will be there passing out informational flyers, asking questions, and pointing out EIS deficiencies for the record.

There are a couple of misconceptions about the F-35 Draft EIS that need to be clarified. The first is the idea that the F-35s are unlikely to ever come to Boise because another site will be selected instead. That is not the case at all. The integrated review of four possible F-35 locations, Boise, Tucson, Luke, and Holloman is not a “winner take all” contest. All four sites are being pre-scoped for pre-approval and stockpiling for activation as F-35s become available. Eglin AFB in Florida already has F-35s located there. Luke has been identified as the next preferred alternative to be activated in the 2013/2014 time frame. How quickly Boise, Tucson, and Holloman get activated depends on how fast Lockheed Martin can push the jets out the door and how many each base is allowed to accept. Once the Final EIS is issued, the stage is set for quick activation as the locations are needed. And since Eglin just had their maximum F-35 numbers reduced from 144 to 59 due to noise lawsuits, more sites are likely to be needed sooner rather than later. So don’t allow yourself to become complacent by assurances that they will never come to Boise. Now is the time to get our questions answered – not after it is too late to stop the deployment?

Monty, If I may suggest that a link be added to the saveourvalleynow.org website announcing that the Guardian is providing this space for public forum. People are having trouble finding these comments and learning about the real possibility of this change to our home.

Having spent most of my 20 years AF career working on fighter type aircraft I do not think a city, any city is the appropriate place to base fighter jets. The noise id too great and the distractions are too many. Mt Home, Cannon AFB near Clovis N.M and Beale AFB near Marysville in the dredded state of Cali. Are perfect places for these type jets.
That being said I don’t understand how anyone who bought property near the end of the runway in this case a military/civilian runway can get upset about aircraft noise. Missions for the military change and with that comes the utilization of different types of equipment, if Southwest decides to buy noisier aircraft and fly them out of here are you going to stand up and tell them no? I guess I will never understand people I remember people on Eagle Island a few years ago complaining about the river flows being too high and their houses were flooding, if you buy a house on an “island” in the middle of a river it might flood, if you buy a house at the end of a runway you’re going to hear jets.
The base (Gowen Field) was used to train pilots during WWII it’s been here longer than 90% of the city, the city encroached on the base, the base didn’t encroach on the city. Try to remember that.

Rick, It will ruin life for about 5 miles around, especially on inversion or overcast days… not just “near” the runway.

Airlines are prohibited from operating noisy jets to places like Boise. Problem is the noise law is not applied to the USAF. It should be with all the tax-free empty space they already have tied up in the middle of nowhere all over the nation.

Boise is their training base target so they can give their training pilots and foreign visitors a nice place to live in Meridian instead of boring little MHAFB, and all the social issues of such a small town.

Team Dave is ok with this because he wants to play with trains in a bankrupt downtown and just needs a shot of green to do it. They are also overbuilt on capacity at the airport by about 3 times and feel kind stupid about that. So they are disparate to use all that pavement before the feds stop sending them money to maintain it.

Robert – You raise a good point about qualifying the noise contour map in the Facts and Impacts flyer. The noise contour in the flyer was traced directly from the noise contour map created by the Air Force on pages 14 and 15 of the EIS Executive Summary.

It’s tempting to imagine that we enlarged the impacted area in the map designated Not Suitable For Residential Use. No such luck. We matched the noise contour exactly and it is alarming just as it stands.

Is it unreasonable to wonder about our priorities? We will fight for the rights of bugs, rats, green-stuff and worms in the soil that live out in the middle of nowhere, that their life not to be disturbed by military training, and yet we look at 10,000 plus neighboring homes and tell them to bad live with it. I guess their quality of life is of less regard than the previously mentioned. This will affect the entire valley, shouldn’t we be working together to protect it?

To me it comes down to this. The base was there when these people moved in, now because people chose to live in that place now the base must bow to the desires of those who encroached on them? I just think that since people knowingly and willingly moved into the flight path of the base/airport they have no right to complain about the noise. If you are concerned about jet noise don’t buy near an airport. I have read on here that life will be ruiened for 5 miles…. not true…. I have read that the engines spit raw fuel… not true…. do your homework before you buy… if you dont….dont complain…. I hope they station a hundred of the jets there… maybe the population in the valley will go back down to where it should be…

First, I’d suggest we all support bedding the planes down at Luke AFB. That’s the preferred alternate for the Air Force. http://www.f-35atrainingeis.com/resources/04%20F-35A%20Poster%20-%20PA%20and%20Alternatives%20-%20FINAL%20-%202012-1-11.pdf

Second, there are four scenarios (baseline, 24, 48, 72 aircraft) evaluated for Gowen Field. I suggest we make comments supporting the baseline or keeping things as they are now (A-10) scenario as having the least environmental impact on the Valley. My second choice would be 24 aircraft one since that scenario reduces the NSFRU area. Remember this is an Environmental Impact Statement.

Third, we need to comment on the other three scenarios FACTUALLY. Support your comments with information from the Draft EIS itself or other sources you can reference. For example, there is a comment in the document which appears to say that under one scenario air quality in the Valley may actually DECREASE.

Fourth, we need to ask to see all noise contour lines – not just the 65 dB. There is a comment in the DEIS that West Jr High would experience a noise level approaching 100 dB yet no comments are made about Frank Church High School, the Vo – Tech Building, or the Boise Schools Administration Building – all of which are in the same immediate area. And there are no comments about noise in the neighborhood immediately (about 1/2 of a mile) south of West Jr. High over which all types of aircraft pass at about 500 ft on their approach to the airport.

Fifth, if you testify, be prepared to make all your comments within a time limit – maybe 3 minutes. Rehearse you comments before hand.

Lastly, download (http://www.f-35atrainingeis.com/EisDocument.html) (Chapter 4) and read the DEIS for Gowen Field. It’s about 160 pages. There’s also some supporting tables and other information that can be downloaded. Inform yourself. Make informed comments. You have until March 14, 2012 to submit comments either by email or snail mail.

John Q Publique, Thank YOU Thank YOU..

I suggest any of you take a trip to Mt Home set in the parking lot of what used to be Scrubbies Smokehouse… well within the 5 miles purported to be made uninhabitable and just listen to the F15E’s taking off and landing. The F 35 is supposed to be louder yes at 50k pounds thrust the motor has to be the shit, but at the distance Scrubbies is from the runway normal speech will still be able to be heard. Go see for your selves before you get your knickers in a bunch.

Great suggestions, John Q. Referring to the F-35 EIS is especially useful since it represents the Air Force’s point of communication with us as a community that would be affected by F-35s coming to the Boise airport. It is troubling that legal experts here and in Arizona and New Mexico conclude that the EIS is misleading and incomplete, thus failing in its purpose. A group in New Mexico was successful in getting an extension of their EIS because it was unclear. A group in Arizona is getting ready to attempt the same thing. We have a case for trying for an extension as well.

For instance, Rick and John Q both mention 72 F-35s coming to Boise. According to the EIS the Air Force has decided to consider only three squadrons of F-35s—72 aircraft—in their search for bases because anything less would not be cost effective. Instead of removing the B1 and B2 scenarios (24 and 48 aircraft) from the EIS, however, the Air Force offers a straw man solution of leaving the lesser numbers in the study, confusing the issue. Yes, Rick, the EIS states that 72 F-35s would make 50 sorties a day in Boise for a total of 14,000 in a year. I agree with you—in an urban community like Boise it makes no sense whatsoever.

Another weakness of the draft F-35 EIS is that the only noise data offered in the study was modeled in software instead of by a team of audio engineers going out and physically measuring the noise. An egregious flaw in the EIS is that the 65 DNL noise contour that the EIS uses is a sleight-of-hand built on averaging periods of ordinary noise with moments of loud noise. It is disingenuous for the Air Force to average the noise level of no jets flying—including at night—with the extremely loud noise events of F-35s flying overhead and call it actionable data. The Air Force uses the same averaging scheme when describing the average noise levels inside impacted schools.

DNL numbers and the noise contours created from them probably are the result of accurate calculations but without a reference to the actual noise levels of F-35 overflights they mis-direct our attention away from the real issue of repeated moments of intrusively-loud noise. If you’re interested, ask the Air Force for Lmax data that describe the actual noise levels of the F-35.

We all get to believe who we will, Rick. You don’t have to convince those opposing the F-35 coming to Boise and they don’t have to convince you. Forums like this do help us all better understand the issues. Both sides should share their views at the public hearings next week or directly via email. Your suggestion that we go listen to actual jets in Mt. Home is exactly the kind of real-world data we’re hoping to get out of the Air Force.

Monty, I get my facts from spending over 20 years in the AF. I spent much of that time on the flight line working on aircraft ranging from F111’s to F15E’s and F16 C/D’s as an engine mechanic (the part where all the noise comes from). I lived on base for a good deal of that time much closer to the flight line and runway than ANYONE in Boise will be living.Were those aircraft loud yes, will the F35 be louder yes, but not at the distance the general public in Boise will be living.
I guess it comes down to this, as I have said twice already, go to Mt Home stand 2 miles from the runway and listen you will find that your flyer which states that “the area all the way to Federal way would be unsuitable for residential use” is simply not true.
313 people who live inside your pink area are no more likely to have increased hearing loss, and you’re flying numbers and burner excursions are ridiculous. I don’t care what the EIS says.
Try experiencing something for yourself, just because something is written doesn’t make it so. Those who have lived it know better,
I, as I have said before, don’t think the planes should be stationed here, expand Mt Home and base them there. What I don’t agree with is the misinformation being used to recruit more people to you’re camp.

Rest assured that I will help launch a class action suit against the Air Force for destroying my property values and life style. We’ll make it hot for you! Why should tax payers fund your polluting flyovers when there is barely enough money for schools. Let’s face it. America can no longer afford an Air Force. I say, keep the football team, but dismantle the rest of the operation. You want to choke the life out of our children by crop dusting them with aviation poison! Shame on you! Stay out of the Treasue Valley! You should be ashamed of yourselves for even flying such obsolete junk. END WAR NOW!

nothing like the non-stop sound of the hideously loud F35 fighter jets tearing up the air to cram the industrial war machine’s complete domination of mankind, and their need to force fear and anxiety upon every man woman and child. welcome to the new world order.

Outstanding idea, Peter!
Please bring in one or a few F35’s for a “demo day”. If there is no excess noise problem, the Air Force should be happy…even anxious to demonstrate that the F-35 noise opponents are wrong. Shut up and fly it. We can make up our own minds based on the experience and stop the endless nagging in forums and meetings. A month ago something took off, orbited North over the city and flew away to the West. it was loud…REALLY LOUD. I wondered at the time if that was a stealth F-35 demo to see if it garnered any complaints. I’m well away from the airport but ongoing exposure to noise like that one would have me hopping mad

The F-35 has the power to take off in any direction I believe. A little common sense would have the pilots taking off in the direction away from the City and would come out of “burner” as soon as they reach 2000′ perhaps and climb to their FL using the enormous power they have. Every takeoff does not have to come over the Cities with full burner going until they reach their FL. It’s showboating to think otherwise. A little common sense would go a long way here. It can be compared to the Harley Riders with their illegal and excessively noisy exhaust systems drawing attention to them–Hey, look at us!!

There will also be engine replacements and an accompaning engine trim at times. While in the Air Force at Paine Field, WA I could hear the F-102’s on the trim pad 14 miles away at my home in North Seattle under certain wind conditions.

Think of another location folks. I tolerated the excessive aircraft engine noise for 20 years and 22 days because I had to. We have a choice and now is the time to forbid it from happening.

well this discussion has degraded to a point where it is a joke..

new world order..”saluting” Jets as they fly over… obsolete junk….

Jim

Trimming jet engines is a thing of the past….. has been for several years… on fighter jets anyway… fighter jets dont use burner to their assigned FL on a regular basis… you are right common sense would go along way here…too bad most people are not using any

The fact is Boise Air Terminal is simply an unacceptable location for the propossed plan. Gowen field is NOT and should NOT be turned into an active duty AFB which is what this will essentially accomplish. The fact is most AF Bases are distanced from the local civilian population center for the many reasons – one of them being the issue of NOISE. The argument of “you should have known better when you bought your house next to an airport” is correct if we are complaining of existing commerical or Air Guard activity. I knew this when I purchased my home in Columbia Village and accepted this fact – HOWEVER, I NEVER would have expected that Gowen field would be promoted as a location to house 60-70 Active Duty Air Force fighters flying at all ours 300-365 days a year!

If by chance these planes do end up here you bet your ass I will be starting a class action lawsuit.

In the meantime, I ask all of you to please submit your written opposition at the following link:
http://www.f-35atrainingeis.com/Commenting.html

Comments are only being accepted until March 14th. If you don’t at least voice your opposition via written comment, then don’t bother complaining!

Rick,

Very impressive resume! I applaud your work history.

Given the time frame I gave you should know that I was not referring to swabbie jets or B-52’s, although I did work on B-52 while in the Air Force. I joined the 747 support group at line number 225 and stayed there for 8 years before transferring to Staff Avionics and Electrical Engineering. I sat in the right seat during several engine trims, or what I remember to be an engine trim. The home owners on the opposite side of the runway were always complaining of the engine noise. Boeing made a ruling that there would be no engine runs after 10:00 PM. I have contacted the ex Factory Supervisor for his thoughts. I will wait for his answer before conceding.

“Airports are among the greatest sources of local air pollution. A major airport’s idling and taxiing planes can emit hundreds of tons of VOCs and NOx annually. John F. Kennedy International Airport is the second largest source of VOCs in New York City. LaGuardia is among the major sources of NOx…” (link to doc)

http://ehp03.niehs.nih.gov/article/fetchArticle.action?articleURI=info:doi/10.1289/ehp.971051300

No Jet noise

MY guess is the jet holds about 30k pounds of fuel that’s about 4500 gallons 50 flights a day would use between 150k and 200k gallons. If the jet does hole 30k pounds those numbers are probably low by just a bit. I don’t mean to come off like a know it all… but the other side is exaggerating things a lot…. I’m just trying to put out more of the truth

Why is there no news report in the Statesman about the findings of the EIS, Like the sound print or even covering the meetings? And if it is in there please tell me where? Thanks

EDITOR NOTE–What difference does it make! That’s why the GUARDIAN exists–to share what the legacy media misses or refuses to cover.

Did someone mention air pollution. Wonder what the dioxin level and other pollutents will be from the shiny new incinerator Dynamis is going to build at Hidden Hollow
Burning tires, depends and baby diapers must have some negative effect on our pristine air quality

Done….

Generally speaking…. fighter jets should NOT be stationed near city’s… city’s should not grow around airports/military bases…if the military expands question them….. if the city grows too close to the base stop them… 313 people will NOT go deaf from the F35… jet engines do NOT spew raw fuel…

What I think you need to be more concerned with is Vertical takeoff and landing…. just as loud if not louder and longer duration

Lin – Monty Mericle gave an interview with the Statesman yesterday. That said the Guardian has been one of the few public points of information and conversation about the F-35 for weeks. As Dave alluded to we’ve reached out to a number of local media entities with only modest response so far. Thank you Guardian!

At the second public hearing last night those testifying against the F-35 coming to Boise outnumbered those in favor 9 to 1. The testimony of economist, Dr. Kevin Cahill, PhD, that the DEIS is “fundamentally flawed and grossly insufficient” leaves us as citizens without a meaningful way to judge the environmental and socioeconomic impact of the F-35. Translation: it’s probably worse than we think.

It would be interesting to know what the Air Force does with Dr. Cahill’s expert report. They’re required under NEPA law to issue a clear and effective study on what their planes would do to our community and right now it looks like they don’t have that.

Rick, you questioned the assertion that the F-35s would fly 1,400 sorties per year using afterburner when the F-35s can normally take off without AB. The 1,400 AB sorties number comes directly from the Draft EIS, Table 2-6 “Representative Aircraft Sortie Information That Can Be Applied To F-35A Trainning Activities” under “Departures”, and Table 2-8 “Annual F-35A Sortie Projections” (72 plane scenario). Both these tables are on page 2-19 of the Draft Environmental Impact Statement Executive Summary. I was told this is part of the pilot training requirments which are based on the principal – “Train like you fight and fight like you train.” You can confirm the numbers by visiting the Air Force Website at http://WWW.F-35ATrainingEIS.com.

Monty is a classic example of a grumpy old fart who has nothing better to do in his retirement than complain about what isn’t right in the world around him. He has lived his 65+ years under the blanket of protection we call the United States military and will now proceed to question and complain about the method in which it will now be provided.

Shame on you Monty! You can be more than the old fart you are waking up to everyday! You were created for more! Dear Lord! Don’t let me wake up 30 years from now with my picture on the front page of the statesman complaining about what isn’t right around me. I’ve lived directly in the flight path for 17 years now and I still get chills when I hear the sounds of freedom!!

I have the perfect solution. We send Monty and everyone in his area who wants to complain about the noise and send them to live in Afganistan for one year. After a years time we send in the military to rescue all of them with the biggest baddest loudest jets we can find. I cam promise you that our boy Monty has never heard such a joyful sound!! As he fights back the tears in vain, he remembers the complaints and critisism of one year ago and cowers in a cave as he wonders whether or not he is even worthy of rescue. Monty is a blessed man. He lives and breathes under the stars and stripes in a beautiful area of this great nation. Look around you! Life is good! Some day soon, when he has seen the error of his ways, he will be walking outside to go to give volunteer service at the childrens cancer hospital when he hears a noise. it will get louder. But it will not annoy him like in days passed, for he is a changed man! Instead of going to city council meetings to fight against the sounds of freedom, he will be reading books to sick children or the elderly who have lost all of their loved ones and look forward to Monty’s visit everyday. And one day as he is sitting in his car in the hospital parking lot waiting to go inside, he will hear the sound of distant thunder approaching and it will remind him of the life of complaining that was not meant for him. for he is a changed man. We believe in you Monty. You can do it!!

EDITOR NOTE–Eloquent or not, we don’t want personal attacks. The Anti F-35 folks have been civil and those wrapped in the flag should do the same. If you are in favor of the F-35 say so and don’t get personal. This post and editor comment shall serve as a warning to everyone to refrain from personal attacks, no matter how they are couched. Mr. Mericle has used his real name–something you apparently fear to do.

@ dd,

I have noting in common with Mr. M, and I hold the highest grade pilot license in the world. I agree with Mr. M on this noise and air pollution issue however, because he is correct. And he has been very courageous to stand up for what he believes in. No doubt many people who do not respect the rights of their brother who disagrees with them… no doubt many people have been foul with him. He is courageous to stand up for the rights of everyone who will lose freedom as a result of this failed idea.

It sounds like you’ve been in the military? Do you recall way back when… do you recall the day you realized the military was the most wasteful backward screwed up organization you’d ever seen. Well dd, it still is.

I find you may be short of facts and perhaps some hearing ability as well. The flightpath you live under has been a quiet one though for the 17 years you’ve been there in Boise. If they put these 72 planes here, you won’t need to light your BBQ to cook your chicken. And you might need to increase the flow rate on your oxygen tank too. The sound of freedom is really just the military industrial complex sucking us dry. It’s a big part of the reason why old age entitlements are going to be curtailed in the next few years. That’s our freedom going up in smoke with these wasteful Edsel-like like projects. So in a way you are correct, that really is the sound of freedom being burned up.

I agree that a strong military is important, but we do not need to give up our freedom and quality of life to have a strong military. That’s why we built them the beautiful playground called MHAFB. They fought like wild dogs to have their training range a few years ago… they said it will not impact Boise or quality of life in the area. They lied. They lie a lot.

Wow so anti military on here. I have worked around lots of pilots in my day….. not many of them know much about airplanes.

Revenge is sweet! All the Vietnam Vets, who were public scorned and ridiculed and took the public anger, instead of the politicians, finally get to have their say, and rightfully so. (and we all know it) That was a shameful history of the American Public directed toward the individuals instead of the power behind them. They are now part and parcel to the manipulated band wagon rhetoric, which is exactly what the politicians are depending on. The absolutely, slanted and bias report by the Statesman, about Monty and saveourvalleynow.org, and the Statesman’s lack of reported facts was the perfect example of how to stir the pot, get neighbor against neighbor, all the while working behind the scenes to accomplish just what they intended. And as we all know, they have none of us included in their best interests. Not that it matters but I did attend all three meetings and read the grueling report that the AF presented. Our emotional responses don’t matter, they just scatter the fire and the target remains untouched. Typical political tactics and military strategy. And the public falls for it every time!

@ Rick: It is the loss of that freedom we are concerned about.

It is leaving us as if we’ve consumed a strong purgative. It is what happens when a government stops respecting its people. We do not live as free as the day I was born, and it is getting worse. Some of the strongest evidence is the massive increase in spending directed at spying and policing within America. TSA junk-check anyone? (Coming to Wal-Mart stores soon.) Look around my friend, you may well be standing in the same place philosophically as many years ago, but your country has changed dramatically. Your individual rights mean less than ever before. It is the work of both political parties who fear restrictions on their uncontrollable spending addiction. This was able to happen because so many suffer from apathy, rigidity of thought, and failure to always question authority.

That is my prerogative. 😉

Lance

Thank you very much, I tried but I have been told to cut it out.

No Jet Noise.. I dont know what to say so I will say this, If you dont like it…. I will not respond to any more of your comments they seem to be designed to just insight.

I will say this, in my opinion you are wrong plain and simple.

Lance,

You seem to forget that the figures you give are taken from airplanes LANDING when they are throttled back to lose airspeed. Go to the other end of the runway for a real test of their noise level. Quite different I can assure you!

Lance

I’m not forgetting anything, just trying to give you my thoughts after 41 years of aircraft maintenance and engineering.

Before assuming a landing profile the airplane is going far in excess of landing speed. They don’t slow to the 140 – 160 mph (a reasonable guess on the F-35) landing speed by throttling the engine up. They may have to slightly advance the throttle to maintain the glide path and keep from stalling but it would never be 100% engine power. During takeoff, that and burner on is where maximum noise is generated and it is for the length of the runway and until they reach climbout speed and throttle back with burner off that the maximum noise level decreases.

@Lance: It is the video of the F-16 and the F-35 on short-final landing approach that you two are talking about? If so, these aircraft glide like a stone, so partial thrust is needed to get to the airport while maintaining a normal glide path. With gear and flaps extended it requires yet a little more thrust. Additionally, we always keep turbines spooled up when near the ground to prevent flameout and in case we need full power quickly, so drag brakes are used along with minimal thrust to give a safety buffer. Not even close to the power needed for T/O and climb though, as you know. Long story short, those two planes on the video are as quiet as they can be and a poor representation of the noise levels that will be produced by 50 takeoffs a day.

Interesting how the F-35 is still louder that the F-16 in the video though… must be some kinda funky turns or radar screens in the intake giving it a bit more whistle.

The little legacy airforce town in FL that is suing the USAF over excessive noise thought it would be a small inconvenience too, until they had to live it. They thought they knew what loud aircraft where prior to the F-35 also. We are just learning from their mistake.

I would like to add that funding a pork project like this is more likely taking money away from veterans rather than helping them as you infer. It also will damage the local economy to a net negative (no more best place to live and work awards). It also damages the overall nation by funding a toy that we don’t need and is already falling short. The F-35 is a test aircraft that got pushed too far. That’s why these things are called pork projects even by the fattest people in DC.

In comparison: Look up the origins and progress of the F-16, the most amazing thing we ever did overall, they got that project done right. The F-35 is plodding along much more like the F-111 and many other over-priced paper weights from our cold-war past.

Editor: This post is getting very long, so nearly every angle of this thing has been covered already more than once. Thank you so much for doing what the media will not. So sad that Team Dave is still hiding.

This discussion thread has discussed a lot of different things but no one has even talked about what the noise would actually do… What about the psychological implications? Losing sleep and being sleep deprived, increase noises tend to incur more aggression, concentration will be decreased along with the inability to focus on a task, risk of hearing impairment from excessive noise, scholastic performance will decrease, there are so many things that can result in excessive noise areas. This definitely needs to be addressed.

This was taken from nwfdailynews.com Valparasio Fla’s paper. Sounds like the suit was settled with the AF, so now maybe we can get past the scare tactic being used here.

Air Force, Val-P settle F-35 lawsuit (SETTLEMENT)
March 01, 2010 4:34 PM http://www.nwfdailynews.com/articles/valparaiso-26362-air-force.html#ixzz1ogFHmChI

Thanks for posting the story on the Valparaiso settlement, Rick. There’s no need to use Valparaiso’s experience with the F-35 as a scare tactic. As one of the only communities to actually deal with the F-35 so far their experience is instructive.

It catches my eye, for instance, that Valparaiso didn’t get full noise data on the F-35 until they sued the Air Force under the Freedom of Information Act. Just as the Air Force was loath to share noise data with Valparaiso, so they’ve been less than forthcoming in the Boise and Tuscon DEIS. All we have so far are noise contour maps based on noise averages modeled in a computer simulation. It looks like they’ve studied the matter but they haven’t told us anything of substance.

Valparasio, FL is a very small town which shares a boundary with the air base in question. They have very little money to fight. The agreement is a victory for the town because the USAF said it recognizes the noise from the F-35 is too much and will not use the runway nearest the town. You need to read the report you posted. David won the fight as best they could. At least they had town leadership on their team. Many of the residence of the Florida town suing the USAF, are veterans or active duty serving on the nearby base. The noise really is that bad Rick.

Near the noise: Been there done that. Have made a lot of noise in fact. The F-15E at one mile away on takeoff is well above 65db. It is still too loud at 3 miles for a residential area. And that’s just one ship. How about a 4-ship formation launch. Of the chart ground shaking noise for miles. It’s why MHAFB is so far from town perhaps. Is it possible you have suffered hearing loss back in the day like everyone else on the flightline?

I’ve met Jack Nicholson… Had him on my airplane. Rick you’re no Jack Nicholson.

The military is needed and loved by me so long as they stay out of my back yard. They are one of the largest land owners in America, they can let me relax on my land in peace and quiet without compromising their readiness. I have willingly spent lots of money to buy them toys. They are not very responsible however and always want a better toy than the perfectly good ones they have now. Our future federal budgets will fix this habit for them. Unfortunately the military leadership has traditionally shorted the Veterans in favor of more toys. I will work to change that too.

The air quality in Boise is still similar to LA. It has improved since the influx of Cali people. But that is mostly because I retired my burn-barrel stove and old Ford-N, not because of the Cali people.

Rick, The facts win.

Why do you troll on here for people’s personal information? I’ve noticed this is the case with you on the probation posts as well. Kind of creepy. If you do not ask directly you state presumptions about posters which seem to be intended to cause the poster to reply with the corrected information. What are your intentions with the personal info you scape together?

Today is the last day to submit comments to the Air Force on the F-35A Draft Environmental Impact Study. According to the Air Force all concerns will be addressed in the final EIS. Email or fax your comments to:

David Martin, Air Force Contractor, and Kim Fornof

HQ AETC/A7CPP

266 F Street West, Bldg. 901

Randolph AFB, TX 78150-4319

Fax: 210-652-5649 Tel. 210-652-1961

Email: [email protected]

I wrote the engine manufacturer long ago but did not receive any response until today.

Hello Jim – To answer your question, the F-35 aircraft and engine are designed to not require a high power engine run after maintenance at the unit level. Therefore the type of engine trim operation the reader is asking about would not be required at the base level only at the depot level and in that case the run would be done in a hush house.