City Government

Citizens Say Boise Sky Is “No Fly Zone”

UPDATE 5/3/18 The meeting outlined here had the same players and same issues as the one TWO WEEKS AGO. The DAILY PAPER finally attended and we offer a LINK to their coverage.
The U.S. Air Force has scheduled an additional Boise scoping meeting at the Boise Library main auditorium to ensure max participation from the community on Wednesday May 2, 2018, from 5 p.m. to 8 p.m.

The meeting covered the description of the proposed action and alternatives of a proposed establishment of air and ground training spaces in support of urban close air support proficiency for F-15 Strike Eagle aircrews.

As previously reported the missions would include 35 ground personnel and flights of 2 or 4 F-15 fighters orbiting the city for about 90 minutes per mission.

The Air Force says training in urban centers is critical to the Gunfighter mission as they provide an environment with the same tactical challenges encountered during operations in a deployed environment.

The audience of about 45 citizens were overwhelmingly opposed to using Boise air space for war games.

Comments & Discussion

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  1. Long History
    Apr 30, 2018, 1:05 am

    They have quite a history. Why should I trust what they say?

  2. Alexander Jones
    Apr 30, 2018, 1:42 pm

    The whole idea is idiotic! I support our military and the work they do on our behalf, but there is NO WAY tactical urban training missions should be allowed over the city!
    Some reasons include:
    Noise!! Remember how loud air shows can be…but they only last for a weekend
    Air Traffic- We have a regional airport that grows busier all the time. Why risk collisions and crowd the airspace with military aircraft when there are thousands of miles of uninhabited desert just to the south and east.

    Ground personnel- this is urban warfare training. Ground personnel will basically be playing “for keeps” video games on our city streets. Surely we don’t need to now have squads of civilian-appearing vehicles “pretending” Boise streets are a shooting range. Texting and driving are bad enough.

    This is a dangerous and disturbing idea. We’re inundated with increasing noise and road work at every turn. Why would we want to submit to ear-splitting military missions over our city and neighborhoods!?

    And besides…does the military really think that a sample enemy city would look like Boise? Or are they not telling us something.

    Keep Mountain Home the locus for our very committed air combatants, not our capitol.

  3. Re: Alexander Jones – –
    [Noise] Did you read the part where these flights will be around 20’000 feet? When these training missions were held 3 or so years ago over Boise did you notice them at all?

    [Air Traffic] Operations at 20,000 feet have negligible impact on operations at KBOI. And whatever impact they would have can be easily managed by the professional air traffic control personnel both here and Cedar City, Utah. Since operations at 20,000 feet would be primarily handled by “Center” and not the folks in the local tower.

    Remember this is “urban” training. The miles of uninhabited land in the nearby training range is hardly that.

    [Ground Personnel] What precisely do you mean by “playing “”for keeps”” video games”? The ground personnel identify the target/s and relay that info to the pilots. Keep in mind a target is not necessarily a fixed structure.

    Your paranoia is on display when you state “does the military really think that a sample enemy city would look like Boise?”. What do you mean by this statement exactly?

    This is the kind of training required to take out a bad guy, without “collateral” damage, traveling in a vehicle through any metropolitan setting or holed up in a building adjacent to a hospital. This modern day “clean” warfare is a very complicated, technically challenging and expensive undertaking. It is not as easy as the movies portray it.

    It is apparent from comments posted on this forum that contributors are basing their fears, paranoia and concerns without having a complete understanding of what this specific mission entails. Please do some research, attend the meeting and present questions to both the Air Force people and the “sky is falling” folks? Naysayers can deliver bogus and unverified information as easily as anybody else.

  4. Long History
    May 1, 2018, 2:00 pm

    I’ve had enough of perpetual military interventions using up half of our total federal budget and pissing off all but a handful of the rest of the world. 9/11 was a result of this stupidity and disrespect we spew on the world. You may not agree, but well over half of the world’s population does see it this way. They will never forget who blew up their country based on some Washington think tank policy and political aspirations.

    WWII took us about five years. What we’ve been doing since the 60s (Kennedy-LBJ) and especially since the 90s (Bush-Clinton-Bush-Obama-Trump) is called conflict creation and military spending for profit. It’s a corporate business model. We have become a nation of warmongers watching the conflicts on TV like sports. Apparently oblivious to the ticket cost. Our financials indicate it is breaking our nation financially. Aside from the moral bankruptcy, we will eventually find ourselves with many enemies and no money. In WWII we were the morally justified white knight. That is not at all the case any longer.

    I find it interesting how some of our Idaho politicos have a debt clock ticking away on their web pages while also voting for more weapons and more military deployments.

    Some of the clearest thinking peace nicks are people who used to blow stuff up while working for our war machine. Stop and think people. Just what the hell are we doing, why, to what ends?

  5. Thank you for including the very long list of questions that Citizens for a Livable Boise compiled. It shows the level of concern about this unprecedented crazy effort to use us all as fodder for War Games. And recall how the citizens attending the previous meeting asked the Air Force to include them as “Stakeholders”? No one I have spoken to who attended the meeting in April has received an e-mail or other notification from the Air Force. They don’t want people to show up.

    The battery of proposed Military actions looming over us – the never-ending F-35 scheme, CAS and the unexplained recent increase in annoying overflights of neighborhoods already taking place, are in significant part a result of Bieter’s quest to make Boise the most UNLIVABLE City West of the Mississippi. Anything goes here if Bieter thinks someone can make a profit off it.

  6. For anyone who might actually read the rant above-

    Military spending is NOT “half of our total federal budget”.

    I am disappointed such inaccurate information gets posted here.

    Somewhere under 20% is the real, UNFAKE information.
    Fighting bad guys and people with false information is an expensive proposition- it ain’t free!

  7. Long History
    May 2, 2018, 6:42 pm

    Yes, Eastie you are indeed inaccurate. I rewrote the entire wiki page to make myself correct and you wrong.

    Like everything government there are several measures to cloud the issue. ~50-55% of DISCRETIONARY spending. But, as you say, much lesser portion of absolute total. However, shall we then add back in money for the VA and militarized federal police (DHS)? Any way you slice it. Mountains of data show the military related numbers to be outrageously hugely larger than what is needed to protect America from bad guys. What a load of crap that ‘bad guys’ line is. Suggest all spend time digging around. It’s frightening how screwed up our financials are.

    And Eastie, let us not forget our kids are coming out of the school system so stupid they ain’t got a prayer of catching up to the wild ass debt spending we’ve been doing to support our military industrial complex.

    Lastly, I notice and announce you have no issue with the immorality of it all. Because you know I’m correct. Anything for a buck says the lawyer (congress) and the salesman (defense industry).

  8. Long History
    May 4, 2018, 3:12 pm

    What they want to simulate is something perfected by Israeli many years ago. Once absolute air superiority is established, aircraft orbit a conflict area and eliminate targets at the request of ground troops. They need to teach our pilots and ground troops how to kill with air launched standoff weapons very precisely within a populated area. A needed and necessary skill now that noncombatant lives are more valued.

    What they are not telling us is they have huge numbers of pilots and ground troops who need this training. It will likely happen night and day continuously. It will likely involve foreign forces too. This will not be an occasional event.

    Additionally, what they are not telling us is if they add in simulated enemy anti-aircraft fire the overhead aircraft will become much much louder as they maneuver defensively.

    They are not telling us of the very powerful ground scanning radars used to actively map and detect targets. 2 or 4 F-15Es never operate alone. Somewhere in the distance will be a powerful airborne radar blasting Boise to provide overall situational awareness and targeting info.

    They are not telling us of the radio and radar jamming which is typically done to protect the aircraft in hostile areas.

  9. Eagle Writer
    May 5, 2018, 10:14 am

    Good damn grief! Some people live under a bucket, some truly were born yesterday, and some think freedom is free.

    About 1980 (38 years ago) I was a captain in the 12th Special Forces Group, and our unit joined a major AFB for exercises over and in a medium-large city. AWACs were up 24 hours a day, the “fast movers” flew their simulated missions and you could hear choppers nonstop.

    My team (and others) worked the urban downtown, in civilian clothes, with coded message drops, street surveillance, package hand-offs, and establishing communications networks, etc.

    We trained for it, worked from a detailed operations plan, and gained valuable experience for air and ground personnel. Experience that then folded into more training and preparation for those who live and work in the world of unconventional warfare – which today is much of what the U.S. engages in.

    Join me in sending best wishes to today’s military for a great training operation, and hopefully valuable lessons learned and experience gained, just as my team and others did 38 years ago.

    The military is a lot like football – as you practice so will you play. And sometime you have to put on the pads.

  10. Training Needed by Weapons Manufacturers
    May 5, 2018, 8:07 pm

    There have been at least THREE “training” proposals in Boise this year.
    F-35 mission for ID AirNG was TRAINING.
    ID Army NG Orchard Base expansion for outdated tanks claims needing more TRAINING.
    MH AFB needs F-15E TRAINING over Boise, like forever. Establishing a PERMANENT training area.
    These “training” proposals come straight from the weapons manufacturers.
    LMT wins, taxpayers lose.
    Check this out, LMT is getting an order for Army Training supplies.
    Dominant export by state – AIRPLANES. Largely Boing.

  11. Bieter Begone
    May 6, 2018, 3:04 pm

    People on this thread seem to think that the military only needs to train once and then they are good to go. In Reality, it’s a constant process. There are always new people and new situations. Even those who have been through the training need to constantly train.

    We are very lucky in this country not to have had a war come to our shores since 1865ish. Lucky because of the obvious toll it takes but also because it doesn’t appear most people would be able to handle it. They would be too busy screeching about their rights and it’s someone else’s job.

    Providing for the common defense is the one thing the Constitution explicitly states is a function of government. I wish more people would understand that and stop whining.

  12. Long History
    May 7, 2018, 4:04 pm

    BB, you are mistaken? You are an agent? Or just simply _____ if you think this whole militarization thing is not degrading our everyday life in America. Defensive military is needed no doubt. However, we are 7x more than a defensive military. It is a corporate business model to start and fight never ending conflicts.

    WRONG! The war has come to our shores. 9/11, did you forget? Defense spending is only one measure. In plain sight is another. Every time the TSA feels up my boobs and crevices (dirty glove?). Every time they interrogate an old lady returning from cancer treatment. Every time I see a cop shoot someone with an M-16 who would probably just fall asleep if the cop ate a doughnut and moved a block further away. The surveillance state we live in. Did you not hear what Ed Snowden was shouting at us? Our super-smart super-sneaky spy people in government… whose primary quality is a lack of moral compass… has turned the entire spy-works inward. DeepState nearly succeeded in picking our president. (It will succeed when elections federalized.) Have you read up on the creep Trump appointed the next CIA chief? Or Obama’s CIA creep?

    Can’t image the sorrow of families and cultures we destroy in our overseas warfare as part of our ‘policy objectives’. Apparently these policies are more important than innocent life. We are the bully just as much as the people we call evil.

    Tell the Mayor he does not have the right or authority to give permission to use Boise civilians and property in target practice by FOR PROFIT defense contractors. He should at very least collect a user fee and distribute it to the population.

  13. Long History – it is time to take off the tin foil hat, lay down the conspiracy manifesto and take a breath and step back for a moment. This Close Air Support (CAS) training mission (not a War Game) is simply to give the pilots the means to gain, enhance and maintain the skills necessary to successfully carry out their orders in an effective manner and reduce personal risk to them. Yes, these orders sending the pilots into harms way are driven by politicians more than military commanders. But in denying the pilots this CAS training what you and the other obstructionists are in essence doing is sending both the pilots and ground personnel into harms way with one arm tied behind their back. Remember that the next time you are thanking a military person you meet for their service.

    Regarding that “thank you for your service” comment folks give to military personnel and feel so good about. I have spoke with more than a few and they actually do not like receiving that for a few reasons. One of which is the aforementioned hypocrisy and lack of sincerity from the giver.

  14. Long History- it is time to take off the tin foil hat.

  15. Tammy Ikonen
    May 21, 2018, 4:35 pm

    I have grave concerns regarding the fact that foreign military will no doubt be playing the part in this training. The Singapore military Air Force by all accounts have been doing training here. It bothers me that they will probably be not the first nor the last foreign military to exercise in our state of Idaho. Disturbing that is being done here at all. I believe that they already have erected a city of this type near Mountain home so I’m not understanding why they feel it’s necessary to actually Prey Upon the good citizens of Boise. If you have never lived near base or been in the military, you are about to have a very rude awakening. I consider this domestic terrorism.

  16. Super-Smart
    May 25, 2018, 4:34 pm

    The Super-Smart people never run out of stupid things to do.

    I’m wondering if the troops on the ground will be manipulating stoplights in effort to manipulate their targeted vehicles?

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